Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. This hour, we're going to get into some pretty powerful music. First, I want to tell you about this month's Get Lit with All Of It book club selection. We're reading Mothers and Sons by Adam Haslett. The novel follows a New York City-based asylum lawyer named Peter. He's gay and he's become estranged from his mother after a night of violence 20 years ago tore their relationship apart. Now, Peter is faced with the case of a young gay man that reminds him of what happened that night and the secret he and his mother share.

I'll be in conversation with author Adam Haslett on Wednesday, April 2nd at the New York Public Library's Stavros Niarchos Foundation Library branch. To get your tickets and to learn how to borrow your ebook from our partners at the New York Public Library, head to wnyc.org/getlit. Tickets are free. They tend to sell out quickly, so reserve yours today. Again, that's wnyc.org/getlit. Without further ado, let's hear a little bit of music from The War and Treaty.

[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: Citysong]

Alison Stewart: The War and Treaty is comprised of a married couple, Tanya and Michael Trotter. Their music is always chock full of love in all its complicated forms. They dropped their latest album, Plus One, on Valentine's Day. There's a lot more I can say about them. Grammy nominees, American Music Award winners, a movie being made about them, but the true fact is they make great music. Next month, they'll be making a whole lot of great music live at Irving Plaza. That's coming up in just a few weeks on April 8th.

Let's hear some of War and Treaty's latest album, Plus One. When they joined us in our performance studio back in February, I asked them to start off with some introductions to the band.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, of course. I'm Tanya Trotter.

Michael Trotter: I'm Michael.

Alison Stewart: Hello.

Tanya Trotter: We're The War and Treaty. This is our amazing band. This is Slim Holmes on keys.

Michael Trotter: Slim's on keys. Then there's Max Brown on guitar over there.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, and Tom Davis on bass right there.

Michael Trotter: Back there, all caged up is Bam on the drums.

Alison Stewart: All right. You're going to play our first song for us. What are we going to hear?

Michael Trotter: Can I Get An Amen.

Alison Stewart: Amen, yes.

Michael Trotter: Amen. Let's do it.

[MUSIC - The War and Treaty: Can I Get An Amen]

Alison Stewart: Amen. Can I just tell you, how many times can I say it?

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: That's The War and Treaty. I was sitting there listening, and I was thinking, they produce this record at the Fame Studios, right?

Michael Trotter: Yes.

Tanya Trotter: Yes.

Alison Stewart: The Muscle Shoals sound. How does making a record there influence how it sounds, Tanya?

Tanya Trotter: The history. When you think of that room and you think of all the people that have had the opportunity to stand behind that booth and what they brought, so the going in the door, immediately, the standards are high. Not just the singers, but the musicians that have also played in that room. It just changes how you approach your songs, and it changes how you come into your sessions. There's a reverence in that building. Us and our band, what we brought to that was that reverence. We're very excited that we had an opportunity to record it there.

Alison Stewart: Michael, The New York Times profile said, here's the headline, The War and Treaty Are Writing Their Love Story Into Country Music History. Why do you think country music is a good vehicle for telling your personal story?

Michael Trotter: Well, I think it's always a good vehicle when it's an opportunity to tell a different story. I think that's the key and the goal here. I think so many people believe country music is one way, it looks this one way, it represents this one thing. What Tanya and I do is we're bringing the representation, but also we're doing a return. Our journey with country music began with Ray Charles and then country music's journey itself. A lot of people, they go way back with the banjo.

If you will go and you look at some of those stories that the Carter family have and sitting with those Black families and those Black farmers and just those Black southerners, they are the originators of country music, and they looked exactly like Tanya and I.

Alison Stewart: The banjo came from Africa.

Michael Trotter: Absolutely.

Alison Stewart: Tanya, before The War and Treaty, you were a soloist working in soloist working in R&B and gospel. What was your move into country music? Was it intentional? Was it something just came and found you?

Tanya Trotter: I would have to say that country music, it found me. As Michael said, it's always been storytelling, and the truth has always been the foundation of gospel music. I think that I've always had my foot in what I know as traditional storytelling. The country music industry just found Michael and I. We moved from Michigan and we didn't even really know that there was such a thing called the Americana genre. We were just doing music that we loved.

Albion in Michigan introduced us to the blues all over again. It's not that we didn't know it, but it really ignited something different in us. We infused the blues and the gospel and it just happened to have certain instruments in there that lean into country music. I think that the country music genre, it really found us and welcomed us with open arms because of maybe the soulful sounds that are on top of instruments that people may not have heard those voices collaborate with in this era.

Alison Stewart: That was part of my conversation with the Grammy-nominated group, The War and Treaty, who are playing at Irving Plaza on April 8th. We'll hear more about their new album Plus One after a short break and hear a little more music as well. Stick around. This is All Of It.

[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: Citysong]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart. Before the break, we heard some great music performed live in our studios from the husband and wife musical duo, The War and Treaty. Their latest album is called Plus One. We're going to hear a little bit more about it now. First, I wanted to remind you that next month, The War and Treaty will be playing live at Irving Plaza. It's coming up in just a few weeks on April 8th. We're going to hear them play a song called The Glorious Ones, which is the last track on the record. Before we hear it, I asked Michael Trotter to explain why they wanted to end their new album with this song.

Michael Trotter: Because at the end of the day, at the end of all my days, it's just she and I. That's what makes my life glorious at the moment. It doesn't get no better than that.

Alison Stewart: All right. Well, let's hear it. This is The Glorious Ones from The War and Treaty.

Michael Trotter: All right. Max Brown on acoustic guitar. Tom Davis on bass. Bam on drums. Slim on keys. Let's go, y'all.

[MUSIC - The War and Treaty: The Glorious Ones ]

Alison Stewart: That's The War and Treaty singing The Glorious Ones. It's off their new album. It is called Plus One. I think there are 18 songs on the record.

Tanya Trotter: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Okay. What went into that choice?

[laughter]

Tanya Trotter: Well, we had a lot of songs. We recorded, I believe, 60 songs, maybe more.

Alison Stewart: 60?

[laughter]

Tanya Trotter: Yes, on this record, maybe even more.

Alison Stewart: We're getting laughs from over here.

[laughter]

Tanya Trotter: There's a double vinyl when you buy the record.

Michael Trotter: Okay.

[laughter]

Tanya Trotter: We recorded a lot of songs.

Michael Trotter: There's a bus flowing through here somewhere and I'm being thrown under.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, Michael's feet are hanging from under the bus.

Alison Stewart: Michael, what went into that choice? [laughs]

Michael Trotter: A love of the music and a lack of somebody telling me to stop. That's what that is, i.e. Tanya.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, he can't be stopped when he's in a riding zone. That's it.

Alison Stewart: Well, you also are producers on the record, which means you get to make those kinds of decisions.

Michael Trotter: That's right.

Tanya Trotter: See?

Alison Stewart: What is a sonic decision, a decision you made that seemed a little risky?

Michael Trotter: It is risky.

Alison Stewart: That's risky?

Michael Trotter: Yes. I don't know. I think in a time where people who play it safe lose, we're seeing it. We're seeing it in everyday life. The War and Treaty, we're not a safe band. We take risk, whether it be musical risk or whether it be fashion risk. We take those risks and we take them proudly. At the end of the day, we take those risks because they're honest. That's all.

Alison Stewart: In terms of producing the album, Tanya, what does it say to you that you're at a place where you want to produce your own music versus just songwriting and handing it in?

Tanya Trotter: Well, I think it says growth, and it says that you-- I think over time, you do learn to trust yourself as a musician, as an artist, and now co-producer on a lot of our projects. It's growing into trusting yourself because it does seem easier to just write a bunch of songs and give it to someone and let them nurture it into the world. When you decide that you know what it sounds like, you want to know what your mixes sound like, you want to give the freedom to your band to be creative as well, and sometimes you don't have that with the musicians.

Michael Trotter: They're not that good.

Tanya Trotter: Yes.

[laughter]

Tanya Trotter: You want the freedom. I think it says that you've grown into a place where you really just want to have the freedom to have what it is that you write and you create to sound the way that you want it to sound when it hits the ear wave of your fans.

Michael Trotter: Also, I'm the producer.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, he is.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] Well, side-eye.

Tanya Trotter: It was all him.

Alison Stewart: That was straight-up side-eye.

Michael Trotter: It is not Tanya.

Tanya Trotter: They're silent because they know.

Michael Trotter: Tanya's the co. Like, wait a minute. Like a little itty-bitty. We say co softly, but I'm the producer.

Alison Stewart: Our producer.

Tanya Trotter: I get all of this at 3:00 AM in the morning.

Michael Trotter: Only if this project fails is she the actual producer.

Alison Stewart: Understood.

Tanya Trotter: If it doesn't work, then I'll take it.

Alison Stewart: As a producer, what did you learn about the way The War and Treaty have grown?

Michael Trotter: I'd like to now defer this question to Tanya.

Tanya Trotter: No.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] You can use the word growth. Use the word growth.

Michael Trotter: I'll tell you what. I produced our album called Hearts Town. Completely different experience. I think the first thing that I have learned is that no producer knows what they're really doing without a cast. For me, Tanya is my supporting cast in everything. I got another brain, another side of my brain when it comes to producing, and that is the side that is irritating and throbbing, and its name is Max Brown. He's right there.

Tanya Trotter: He's right here.

Michael Trotter: He is someone who you have to get out of the way and in the way at the same time, and that's what makes it all work. Then with your musicians, you have to literally tell them, "Be you." Especially this group. This group, they like to think they know what they're doing when they go in the studio and producing. Then they're playing all safe and quiet. I'm like, "What in the heck are y'all doing? Go for it. Be yourself." The biggest lesson in all of this is this one thing. Always let Tanya lead. You won't fail.

Tanya Trotter: He's getting brownie points right now.

Alison Stewart: Okay. [laughs]

Michael Trotter: No brownie point. I'm actually being extremely serious.

Alison Stewart: Oh, you are? Okay.

Michael Trotter: I haven't failed in life when that has happened. I think Hearts Town was a failure, in my opinion, because I have a hashtag called More Tanya. I think that that is a very important hashtag to have, more Tanya in the story, more Tanya in speaking, more Tanya in her fashion, as you so kindly are wearing-

Alison Stewart: Oh, she loves vintage.

Michael Trotter: -one of Tanya's designs that she didn't even acknowledge. You see how I do?

[laughter]

Tanya Trotter: I don't have my glasses on, so I had to make sure it's what I'm looking at.

Michael Trotter: That's a nice excuse.

Tanya Trotter: Thank you.

Michael Trotter: We're talking about a voice of our time. In my opinion, Tanya is one of the greatest, if not the greatest vocalists that I believe needs some time to shine. Our next project pieces for me is the hashtag MoreTanya.

Alison Stewart: When is it going to come out?

Michael Trotter: It's a very interesting thing that I'm going to tell you, but it's coming. We're actually moving now into the casting phase, so I'm super excited about it. We've been batting some things around as to who could play me and then who could play Tanya. I won't say much about this, but I will say this. Here's the tag. The war brought him music. Music brought him love. The film is actually called The War and Treaty.

Alison Stewart: What would a person watching this film take away from your love story, Tanya?

Tanya Trotter: Resilience.

Alison Stewart: Interesting.

Tanya Trotter: It's a love story. It's a love story about resilience.

Alison Stewart: What would you say?

Michael Trotter: Fight. I would say fight for your right to exist, your right to your healing, and fight for love.

Alison Stewart: You're doing all the press. When do you go out on tour? Give me the details.

Tanya Trotter: Oh, I'm so excited about this. March the 26th is our first day we hit the road. I'm sure the 27th is the first day we hit the road, but our first show is in Minneapolis on March the 26th.

Alison Stewart: Is it going to be just you guys? You're opening for someone? How's it going to be?

Michael Trotter: Oh, it's us. It's our tour, the Plus One tour. Oh, yes, we're touring. We have openers, and it's going to be super, super cool.

Alison Stewart: My guests have been The War and Treaty. Their new album is called Plus One. I understand you're going to be in our area in the spring.

Tanya Trotter: Yes. April the 8th.

Michael Trotter: April 8th, Irving Plaza.

Tanya Trotter: Yes.

Alison Stewart: That was my latest conversation with The War and Treaty about their latest album, Plus One. They will be playing live at Irving Plaza coming up in just a few weeks on April 8th. Coming up, we'll hear more music performed live in our studio. After the break, we'll hear from Ikura of the J-pop duo Yoasobi about recording songs in both English and Japanese, using their music to tell stories and more. This is All Of It.