Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. What would you do if you won the lottery twice? In the new film The Ballad of Wallis Island, the answer is to buy a house on a remote island and invite your two favorite musicians to reunite for a private concert. They say yes because there's a lot of money on the table. The only issue is our protagonist, kind of an odd duck named Charles, hasn't told them about the reunion part.

Herb McGwyer used to be in a folk duo with Nell Mortimer, and they used to be lovers. Nell is played by Carey Mulligan and Herb is played by Tom Basden. Here's a clip featuring Herb, Nell, and Charles, played by Tim Key, at dinner, reflecting on the duo's history.

Herb McGwyer: Morning Hayes as an album. [crosstalk]

Nell Mortimer: What I'm saying is that that was the first time that you could see where we were going, the first time we stopped trying to do rock.

Herb McGwyer: Rock?

Nell Mortimer: Yes.

Herb McGwyer: Did you just say rock? When were we ever trying to do rock? What are you talking about?

Nell Mortimer: I remember you told Rich Hamner that you wanted Give your Love to sound like The Libertines.

Herb McGwyer: Come on.

Charles: Is that true?

Nell Mortimer: Yes.

Herb McGwyer: Okay.

Nell Mortimer: 100%.

Herb McGwyer: It was cool. It wasn't what we were doing. It had nothing to do with the music we were making.

Charles: I gotta say, this is brilliant. I'm loving this. I am absolutely loving this. Just McGwyer, Mortimer, just exchanging anecdotes. Why not? I feel like David Letterman, I really do, with a chicken Xacuti

Alison Stewart: Variety calls the film best kind of crowd pleaser, disarming, joyful, and full of compassion for its oddball characters. The film was directed by James Griffiths. Tim and Tom co-wrote the story. The Ballad of Wallis Island is playing in our area in theaters now. The film enters wide release on April 18th. Joining me now are Tim Key, Tom Basden, and James Griffiths. Nice to meet you all.

Tom Basden: Hi. Thanks for having us.

Tim Key: Nice to meet you.

James Griffiths: Good to meet you too.

Alison Stewart: This project goes back to a short film you made around 2008. The one and only Herb McGwyer plays Wallis Island. Tim, what was the original film about?

Tim Key: Well, the original film was a short film that me and Tom wrote about a millionaire. A lot of the building blocks are already in there. A millionaire who wants his favorite musician to come to his island to play a private gig. He doesn't tell him how private it is. It's very awkward. Somehow they kind of melt throughout the film and become friends. This is a kind of advanced version of that. That's the plan anyway.

Alison Stewart: Tom, when did you think about adapting a short film into a much larger film.

Tom Basden: Well, it was one of those projects that the three of us had loved so much when we shot it and looked back on very, very fondly over the years, so we always talked about coming back to it and doing more with the characters. I think it was when in the first lockdown, I think suddenly all of our work just sort of disappeared, and then Tim and I made a proper effort to go back to that film and look at the scripts again. It was probably a combination of things, but it definitely never went away for us as something that we felt like we wanted to come back to and had unfinished business with.

Alison Stewart: James, how did the three of you wind up working together? Let's go all the way back.

James Griffiths: Oh, well, yes, we've got to go way back. Way back when. I was casting a commercial in my naughty past doing music videos and commercials, and actually, Tim and Tom read for the same part, which I only let them know-- [crosstalk]

Tim Key: Oh, I didn't realize that.

James Griffiths: Tom and I did this commercial together and then he invited me along to a show that he was doing called Freeze with Tom and Tim. They're sort of a double act playing at the back of a pub in London, and I absolutely besotted with what they were doing. They had just a lovely chemistry and very playful and yes, it just felt like it was a really good fit for me.

Alison Stewart: Tom, did you always know that this partnership would work-- the three of you would work together on a feature length film?

Tom Basden: I mean, it was definitely our dream, I think. After we made the short, which it did really well for us, it got nominated for a BAFTA at the time and we had a few people who were interested in working with us, I think we felt like something we all really wanted to do. Then, for one reason or another, the ideas we were coming up with directly after making the short were different to the short. They were very different ideas, and in retrospect, they probably shouldn't have been because the short was a really good idea and we probably should have doubled down on that, but we didn't do that.

Then, I think we hit a bit of a wall with one of them after a few years and went off to do different things. I've done a lot of work on stage and on TV and Griff's been living in LA for about 13 odd years anyway before coming back to the UK.

Alison Stewart: Oh, so he's gone then, he's in LA.

Tom Basden: He's back now. Thank goodness he's back. We lost him for a while, but I think what was really nice was that when we came back to it, it just meant that we'd all done a load of other stuff and we'd worked [inaudible 00:05:13] our approach was going to be, and also, I think Tim and I have become better at writing, and we also aged enough to be the right age to play the characters, hopefully.

Alison Stewart: What does that mean, Tim, that you aged enough to play the characters?

Tim Key: Well, the phrase we're after, I think, is nature's makeup chair, where rather than applying prosthetics, we just sat around for 18 years and waited till we looked about right.

[laughter]

Tim Key: It was a waiting game. I mean, I saw some people talking on stage before their film about five years ago where they said it took them 10 years to make it, and now they're the right age for the characters. I think we've bettered that by about eight years. I think it does take a while to make films sometimes, and I think sometimes there must be some films where you lose it after seven or eight years because you're not the right age anymore. Whereas our one, that was the least of our worries. [laughs]

As time wore on, I think, yes, we looked and acted more like our characters, and also, the film was about nostalgia at its heart, so I think it all happened for a reason. All of those years folded themselves into the finished feature film.

Alison Stewart: Tim, when you see Charles right away in that sweater, so many sweaters, but initially sweater that he's wearing, tell us what's going on with him.

Tim Key: Well, I think in your intro, you called him something, and I wasn't that impressed, but I can't remember what it was. Mr. Dull head or something.

Alison Stewart: I said he was an odd duck. He was an odd duck.

[laughter]

Tom Basden: He is and odd duck.

Tim Key: He is an odd duck. [laughs] Yes. Yes, I think when we meet him, it's interesting because we go away and we shoot the film, and we like the characters, all of the characters, and we like the story, and then you watch it in front of an audience and people respond to this guy, I think, because he is a bit of an eccentric, but I think, like all the other characters, he goes on a bit of a journey in the film. I think you maybe underestimate him at the start because he quacks away and doesn't really say anything of any significance. He's just sort of talking, and irrelevant what the content is, he just has to be talking.

I think as the film develops, you realize that actually he has a life and he has a past and he's a fully-functional human being with qualities the same as the other characters. I think you don't really notice them maybe in the first five minutes, you just think, what's this guy doing, as you say, in his enormous cardigan? Yes, I think that's what I love about playing it and about the finished product, is, yes, he's underestimated and then makes a move.

Alison Stewart: Well, Tom, your character is a fancy pants when we first meet him.

Tom Basden: Very much so, yes. He is. He's slumming it a bit coming to the island to play this gig. Going back to what you were saying about us being the right age for the characters, I think that's an important thing, especially with Herb, you get the sense that he's passed his peak as an artist, that he had his most successful, most prolific period probably about 15 years or so earlier.

When we meet him in the film, he's someone who's doing this grubby gig for a big paycheck and he's convinced himself it's okay, but really, he's selling out and he's not thinking about that, or he's trying to ignore the elephant in the room that he's just now taking loads of money for a private gig. Yes, he-- [crosstalk]

Tim Key: Are you talking about my career, Tom?

[laughter]

Tim Key: I feel like there's a-- just leaning into that a little bit. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Well, James, how did you take the odd duckness of Charles, I'm staying with that, and the fancy pantsness of Tom, and how did you use that tension in the beginning of the film to set it up for us?

James Griffiths: Well, I mean, Tom and Tim have a wonderful, as we've talked about, the history, a wonderful history and therefore, a fantastic chemistry. It's very easy for me to sit back and watch them do their thing. I think the hardest thing is just to make sure that we modulate all the funny and keep the drama, or at least the emotion, bubbling along there as well. Yes, it's a joy, to be honest, to be working with them. It is a balancing act because we really want Charles to be annoying for Herb, but not annoying for us and audience.

The guys are very, very creative on set and bring a lot of ideas and a lot of wonderful puns and alternatives and other lines. Yes, it's just about modulating that in the edit and making sure that we're staying on track with story.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about The Ballad of Wallis Island. It's in select theaters now with a wide release on April 18th. I'm speaking to its co-stars and co-writers Tim Key and Tom Basden, as well as director James Griffiths. We'll have more after a quick break. This is All Of It.

[music]

Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guests are the co-writers and the stars of the film The Ballad of Wallis Island. That's Tim Key and Tom Basden, as well as director James Griffiths. When Herb comes to Wallis Island, he doesn't know that Nell's gonna be there, and Nell comes knowing that Herb will be there.

Tom Basden: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Tim, what does that say about each of them?

Tim Key: Oh, I don't know. I mean, it's a bit of an anomaly. I think it's just a practical thing from his side of things. I mean, he can't invite Nell on her own. I think she wouldn't come without Herb. I think it's just at some point he's sort of burnt the midnight oil and worked out how his scheme should work and then just sent the appropriate emails. They get into that in the film. It's more a question for Herb, really, but in the film, you see the makeup of a duo start to unravel.

We do get into that a little bit about what they are on their own and what they are together, and even to the extent that there starts to be some discussions about percentages and how important they are to one another and whether they can exist on their own and things like that. Yes, the answer to your question is it's complicated.

Alison Stewart: Tom, you wrote the songs for the film. You and Carey Mulligan sing them. Did you know that you had certain songs that you wanted in the film, or did you write and then, oh, this is a place a song should go?

Tom Basden: Yes, it was a bit of both, to be honest. I had a few songs, I guess, in the bank before we got into preparing in pre-production for the film. I had a sense of which ones might work at certain times, so when we were writing the script, I had an idea about what I might play in certain scenes and what Herb and Nell might sing and what they might connect over. Then, I'd say about half the songs I wrote in the couple of months leading up to the shoot when I'm really targeting specific moments and trying to write songs that give a particular energy or a particular feel for a scene. It was a combination.

I think the big difference in the short and the feature is that Herb used to be in this band with Nell, with Carey, and it meant that when writing the songs, I could give them all a history. I could tell the story of their relationship and how they felt about each other through the music, both in terms of the lyrics and the feel of the songs, and that was very helpful.

Alison Stewart: We're going to listen to one of the songs, Give Your Love. Can you give us a little context before we hear it?

Tom Basden: Okay. Yes. This is an early McGwyer, Mortimer song that they would have written when the two of them were very much loved up and a harmonious item that, yes, they find themselves playing for Charles at the dinner table in his house, slightly off the cuff as a way of settling an argument.

Alison Stewart: This is Give Your Love from The Ballad of Wallis Island.

[MUSIC - Herb McGwyer & Nell Mortimer: Give Your Love]

Herb McGwyer & Nell Mortimer: If you need some affection and you're feeling all alone

Reach on through your reflection

Pick up the phone

Cause you can stay if you're staying

Yes, I don't need to know

We'll just keep the music playing

And let the evening flow til we know

Till it shows us where it wants to go

Oh, give your love, give your love to me

Honey give your love, give your love to me

Honey give your love, give your love to me

The love I need, oh yes indeed.

Alison Stewart: It's a lovely song, by the way. It is a beautiful song.

Tom Basden: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: Carey Mulligan obviously wasn't in your original. She came to the project through her husband, Marcus Mumford. Can you tell us, James, how that came about?

James Griffiths: Well, I think it's another slightly lockdown story actually. I think from speaking to Marcus, he's a huge fan of Tim's poetry show, and it was a lovely moment actually when we all met and there was an exchange of albums signing. Tim handed over his vinyl and Marcus his vinyl. Marcus was a fan of the work, and Carey. I think everyone, they'd been listening to the radio show during lockdown. Tim can probably talk about how that then transpired.

Tim Key: Oh yes. We made a hit list of who we wanted to be in the film. You obviously go quite ambitious because obviously none of it will ever happen, and Carey Mulligan was at the top of our list. I said I had her email because she'd reached out to me once to host an event, and I'm not very good at hosting events, so I politely declined, but now I had her email, crucially.

Alison Stewart: Important.

Tim Key: I wrote her a very, very high pressure email that had to be perfect. The same day she replied saying she'd love to read the script, and yes, we got a script to her and we got the short film to her. You just don't know whether you're on anyone's radar. We just admired Carey Mulligan from afar, and I'm not saying she admired us per se, but we were at least a tiny flicker on her radar where when that email came in, she was interested in reading it and deciding whether she could stomach it.

She was fantastic. We got her and we got all the talents of Carey Mulligan and all of the Carey Mulligan, the person, who has just been wonderful to work with.

Alison Stewart: Yes, I want to sidebar for a minute. April is National Poetry Month, and you have this program on the BBC, Tim Key's Poetry Programme, which is not just poetry. Tom provides musical accompaniment. I wanted to play a little bit of it for our audience so people can hear a little bit of it. Let's play that.

Tim Key: Hello, and welcome to Tim Key's Late Night.

Tom Basden: Hang on a minute. [inaudible 00:18:03] [crosstalk]

Tim Key: Oh my God. Already? You should have thought of that.

Tom Basden: What does that mean?

Tim Key: Just you should have--

Tom Basden: [inaudible 00:18:07] [crosstalk] carry a fold-out chair around with me everywhere I go?

Tim Key: Yes, possibly. Just sit down. Just-- [crosstalk]

Tom Basden: On what?

Tim Key: I don't know, stand up or sit on my Samsonite suitcase. Just do something.

Tom Basden: All right.

Tim Key: God.

[background noise]

Tim Key: Oh my God. Honestly. Right. Hello, and welcome to Tim Key's Late Night Poetry Programme.

Tom Basden: Is it called that?

Tim Key: Yes, it is.

Alison Stewart: It's very funny.

Tim Key: It's very surreal to think that you're playing that to American people now.

Alison Stewart: Now they love you.

[laughter]

Tim Key: We just quietly do that in the UK.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: It struck me as I was listening to that, James, they have such chemistry. We're talking about [unintelligible 00:18:47] here. They have such chemistry, the two men on the screen. When do you know when to step in as the director and say, hey, I need you to do this, I need you to act this way, or when do you just know when to step back and let it happen?

James Griffiths: Well, I think I always consider my job as trying to set people up for success and just create an environment where actors, comedians, whoever I'm working with, and crew, to be honest, can all do their best work. I just have an instinct for it, I think. I love what they do. They have a great musicality to what they do, but it's always character first. We aligned very early on in our early work, and Carey and Sian and AK the same, that we all seeking the truth really, in those moments.

I think if we just ask ourselves, do we believe it and does it make us laugh, obviously, I think that's always going to happen. I certainly just want to commit to the situation and then reap the rewards of that, really, trust the writing, trust the material, and then watch them do their thing. It's a real privilege watching them, and I just want to see them do really well is my gut feeling, is like, I just want this to work for them, but I step in occasionally when I get bored, obviously.

Alison Stewart: Tom, what piece of advice did James-

Tim Key: [unintelligible 00:20:15] really bang on.

Alison Stewart: - give you as a director? What did he give you as a director that you kept to your heart?

Tom Basden: Well, I mean, to be honest, the main thing with this shoot, but most shoots really, is that you don't have a lot of time, you don't have a lot of leeway when it comes to getting what you need. I think Griff's real skill on this is just reminding us what the story is, stopping us from having too much fun doing something self-indulgent, which is very easy to do, particularly when you're trying to be funny.

It's very easy for the performers just to be making each other laugh and to lose focus on what the scene is about, particularly when you're shooting in weather that's changing all the time or against the tide that's going out, anything like this. It's so important that you're focused on what the scene's actually doing. I think that's where Griff's very, very good at making sure that Tim and I have fun but we also have our eyes on the whole thing and don't lose sight of what we're actually there to capture.

Alison Stewart: Tim, you want to add anything as we finish up?

Tim Key: No, it's exactly that, really. We wrote the film, so we should feel comfortable doing it and we should know what our characters are, because we do lots of things in other people's work. It was Griff allowing us to have that that we were able to be comfortable and be able to find what we found funny. As Tom describes him, actually it sounded more like a father figure there looking after his children, which reflects badly on us. There is that element where Griff has wisdom and has a lot of skill in making that happen and turning it into a film rather than a disaster.

Alison Stewart: Tim Key, Tom Basden, and director James Griffiths. The name of the movie is The Ballad of Wallis Island. Thanks for being with us.

Tim Key: Pleasure.

Tom Basden: Thank you.

James Griffiths: Thank you. Thank you very much.

Alison Stewart: That is All Of It for today. I'll be back here tomorrow.