[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: Citysong]

David Furst: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm David Furst. It's just a little bit past 12:30 now. If I were in Italy, I would have had my morning espresso at the bar, perhaps with a cornetto before heading to work. Right now, maybe I'd be getting ready for a larger lunch and an afternoon nap. Renato Poliafito is a first-generation Italian-American New Yorker who is familiar with the daily rhythms of both Italian and American food cultures. He's also a James-Beard Award-nominated baker and owner of the Ciao, Gloria coffee shop and bakery in Prospect Heights.

Renato has written a new book about how he combines his Italian and American roots into baked goods. The book is called Dolci: American Baking With An Italian Accent. It's out now, and Renato Poliafito joins us to talk about it. Welcome to WNYC.

Renato Poliafito: Thank you so much. Happy to be here.

David Furst: Listeners, we would like to hear from you. Are you Italian or Italian-American? How do you embrace your heritage through the food you cook, bake, or eat on a daily basis? Are there any nostalgic food memories you associate with Italian baked goods? Call us or text us at 212-433-9692, that's 212-433-WNYC, or reach us on social media @AllOfItWYNC. In your book, starting at the very beginning, you tell your family's story about how they came to America, and it begins with your father arriving in Manhattan in the summer of 1957 and spending the first few nights sleeping on a park bench. Is that right?

Renato Poliafito: Yes, that's right. He actually came to Bushwick, Brooklyn, where other Sicilians were at the time. Yes, his first few nights were spent on a park bench before he connected with other people, who were from the town he was from and then he found a place to live.

David Furst: Then he found a place to live and established his family in America.

Renato Poliafito: Yes. Yes, that's right. He called for my mom and my sister a few months later and had them fly from Sicily to New York, Idlewild Airport at the time. It was apparently like a 28 hours journey.

David Furst: [chuckles] Well, you write in the book about this awkward middle ground that you felt you were in, growing up in Middleville, Middle Village, Queens as a child of Italian parents. You were Italian, but also, a first generation American. You say you never felt fully accepted by either group.

Renato Poliafito: Yes, it was just a very weird thing to-- Growing up, my dad would always say, "In this house, we're in Italy. When you step outside, you're in America and then do whatever you want with that." [chuckles] It was just this-- I had this cultural thing happening at home, but then had to really switch over to be an American kid when I was outside. It was just this clash of two cultures that would always made me feel like, I'm like, "Where do I truly belong?"

At home, it felt different than other people's homes, and outside, I felt different than other kids who were uniquely just like American.

David Furst: Was food one of the ways that helped you sort of bridge that gap?

Renato Poliafito: Well, of course. I mean, Italian families, [chuckles] it's basically all about food. My mom was just a great cook, and she was a house-- she kept the house, so it was under her domain. We would have home cooked meals pretty much every day. Going to McDonald's or getting Chinese takeout was like such a special experience for me growing up because it was so rare, but having Italian food was just the norm. You would start with a pasta course, go to the main. You would have fruit for dessert, a little espresso. It's basically just how we ate for my entire childhood living at home.

David Furst: In Italy, breakfast is thought of differently than it is in America, right? I mentioned cornetto at the beginning. What is a cornetto?

Renato Poliafito: A cornetto is-- think of like a slightly sweeter, softer croissant. It's the same shape and the same look, but they tend to just be a little more on the sweeter side in terms of the dough, and then a little on the softer side. Italians love to have a filled cornetto so you would have it filled with apricot jam or pistachio cream, Nutella, raspberry, you name it.

David Furst: The book is absolutely beautiful. It's called Dolci: American Baking With An Italian Accent. Is there a favorite recipe in this book, something that you had to include?

Renato Poliafito: I would say the Crostata della Nonna is one of my favorites. It's like a mashup recipe. If you're familiar with the Torta della Nonna, which is usually a frolla dough, which is like a simple Italian pastry dough or tart dough. You fill that with pastry cream and you cover it up with some more tart dough. It's like an enclosed pastry cream tart, usually covered with pine nuts. I mashed that with an actual Crostata, which is what you usually find in bars and little cafes around Italy, usually filled with apricot jam, and it has a nice lattice crust.

Basically, I put the filling of a Torta della Nonna in a Crostata. It's this pastry cream-filled latticed crust tart, and it's really nice. It's simple to make, it's delicious. It's a very straightforward recipe. I think it's a nice entry level recipe into this book.

David Furst: Entry level because it's not super difficult to make or--?

Renato Poliafito: Yes. I would say the way I laid the book out is, it's Graham's first in the weights and the ingredient list. I basically say in the front of book, if you're going to start making recipes in this book, you're going to need a scale, and you're going to weigh all your ingredients out. I think that approach is how we approach it in a professional kitchen, but it's an easier approach than measuring in cups and spoons and all that because you get your weights correct every time. That's how bakers bake. It's a bit of a science.

I think entry level because the flavor profile is really Italian. You're making just a simple tart dough that applies to multiple recipes in the book, and you're making a pastry cream. It's a very simple attack, and it really works on multiple levels as far as Italian desserts go.

David Furst: If you'd like to join this discussion, give us a call. 212-433-9692, that's 212-433-WNYC. How do you blend together Italian and American culinary traditions? Is there a combination you especially love? Talk about your favorite food memories, especially Italian baked goods. Let's hear from Teresa calling from Manhattan. Welcome to All Of It.

Teresa: Hello.

David Furst: Oh, Teresa, are you there? This is--

Teresa: Yes, yes.

David Furst: Are you calling from Manhattan? Do you have something you'd like to add to the discussion?

Teresa: Yes, I've been making my grandmother's pizza dolce for most of my life with her recipes back from Bari, Italy.

David Furst: Oh, that's great. Thank you for joining us with that discussion. What about that, Renato?

Renato Poliafito: Oh, well, I mean, I think the-- You're saying it's like a pizza, a sweet pizza from Bari. Can you explain what it is? Every region in Italy has different names for almost the same desserts, but I'd be curious to hear more about it.

Teresa: It's a sweet pie. It's made with ricotta, sugar, and a lot of eggs.

Renato Poliafito: Ah, okay, okay. Italians also love leaning on the same ingredients, and ricotta finds its way into a lot of desserts. It sounds great. Is the crust like a pasta frolla or is it almost like a piece of pie dough?

Teresa: It's actually crustless. It's ricotta and-- yes, it's 18 eggs, three pounds of ricotta, sugar, the rind of a lemon, the juice of a lemon, then cinnamon, and a little bit of anisette.

Renato Poliafito: Oh, wow.

Teresa: It goes into a round pan, and it takes a long time to cook because the eggs have to set. Yes, it takes about 90 minutes to bake at a lower oven.

Renato Poliafito: Wow.

David Furst: I mean, all of that sounds wonderful.

Renato Poliafito: It sounds delicious. It's almost like a cheesecake in a way.

Teresa: Right, but an Italian style cheesecake, but it's all traditionally pizza dolce.

Renato Poliafito: Pizza dolce. I love it. I love it.

David Furst: Teresa, thank you so much for sharing that. Let's also hear from Jerry, joining us from Queens today. Welcome to All Of It.

Jerry: Hi, there. This is Jerry from Queens. The lady Teresa is definitely an Italian cheesecake, which we have at Armondo's Italian Restaurant in Queens. It's amazing how he and I are dissimilar. His father-- I came to America in 1956 on the last successful voyager, the Andrea Doria, and got involved in the restaurant business, and his parents got him involved in the bacon business, which is so Italian. Food is such an important. We were made to speak only Italian in the house. No English. When we were outside, we spoke both languages.

David Furst: Renato, does some of that ring true for you?

Renato Poliafito: It rings very true. I mean, my parents just arrived a year later after you. Because I was the youngest of three, my brother and sister, who were older than me, they were told they had to speak Italian. By the time I came around, my parents got a little lazy. [chuckles] They were like, "Yes, you could speak English, but you have to understand Italian." My parents, growing up, they would just exclusively speak to me in Italian, and I would answer them in English. My comprehension in understanding Italian is 100%, but my speaking, sometimes I trip over my words, I have to admit.

David Furst: Renato, you are the owner of Ciao, Gloria in Prospect Heights. Can you talk about the location? Where is it if people want to come and check it out?

Renato Poliafito: Prospect Heights is right next to Park Slope, where a little bit Prospect Park adjacent, Vanderbilt Avenue goes right into Grand Army Plaza, which is where the library is and the botanical gardens. It's a really beautiful neighborhood. Prospect Heights has been one of my favorite neighborhoods for as long as I've lived in Brooklyn, which at this point has been a really long time. It's a beautiful street. Vanderbilt Avenue has so many businesses and restaurants. It's just a fun place to come and hang out.

On weekends, we have open streets program. People just come for the day and just go from shop to shop, eat, and enjoy themselves. Ciao, Gloria is, I'd say, at the head of Vanderbilt Avenue. We've become an anchor to the neighborhood, which was my goal from the beginning. With Ciao, it's like I always wanted to be a really, I guess, a popular neighborhood spot.

David Furst: Well, I want to get to another call, 212-433-9692 but I have to mention really quickly, before you became the owner of a bakery, you worked in advertising. What gave you the itch to switch careers and make the jump into the food industry?

Renato Poliafito: Well, it was a long time ago. Before Ciao, Gloria, I had a bakery called Baked for a number of years, located in Red Hook. Before that, I was a designer. The jump actually happened in 2001, 2002. I had always had an interest in coffee. I grew up in a household that worshipped coffee. When I was really young, my mom actually taught me how to use a percolator, so I could make coffee for her before she got up in the morning. Coffee has always been a passion of mine. I wanted to open up a coffee shop, and my then business partner, who we opened up Baked with, wanted to open up a bakery.

I fell into it because it was a coffee shop/bakery. I ran the front of house and ran the coffee aspect of things. Just by default, I learned how to become a professional baker over the years. I would bake at home, but never on a commercial level, obviously.

David Furst: I want to come back to this coffee conversation in just a moment, but first, let's hear from Mary, joining us from Forest Hills. Welcome to All Of It.

Mary: Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I know this is a little bit off topic, but my ears perked up when I heard your guest talk about growing up as an Italian-American in Middle Village. I grew up in Middle Village. I'm a Chinese-American. In the '80s, Middle Village was primarily Italian and German. That aside, I just had the same tingling feeling that he did. He was expressing growing up in an Italian family, that he was straddling two cultures. At home, you're in Italy. When you're outside, you're whatever. In my family, it was the same thing.

When you're at home, you're Chinese. When you're outside, you're Chinese. I always felt that tension between the very different cultures and how you eat Chinese food at home. When you go out, it's a rare occasion when you're eating something else. It's always the ethnicity of your homeland that's being focused on at home. It just resonated with me so much. I never understood that for an Italian-American or even any foreign European that travels to America that they would have that sense of culture disparity because I always saw it as-- well, you're white, so that means you fit in just fine. It was really very interesting to hear.

David Furst: Renato, what--?

Renato Poliafito: It's true. I mean, growing up in Middle Village, yes, there was an Italian population and a German population, but I went to a public school right nearby. There was an Asian population that was coming in as well. There were a number of Asian kids in my class. It was something that we all felt. My parents were basically off the boat. There was a cultural difference, I feel like, even between Italian-Americans that had been here longer in terms of like maybe we're third generation, let's say, their experience with Italy versus my experience from Italy was just wildly different.

They had assimilated and had an American-Italian cultural background, where mine was, like, I'd say Italian first and then American. I think it's with every culture. It's like the longer you're here, you appropriate different things. Essentially, if you're new, it's the culture you're from first, and then before American.

David Furst: I wanted to ask you a little bit more about coffee because anyone who knows you probably would say you have a mild coffee addiction perhaps as you write in the book.

Renato Poliafito: [laughs]

David Furst: You say there at least six coffee makers in your home?

Renato Poliafito: Yes. [chuckles]

David Furst: Why is coffee so important in Italian food culture? Why is it such a good pairing with pastry?

Renato Poliafito: I think coffee's been around for quite some time. Italians have obsessed over it for centuries now. Their coffee culture is slightly different than ours. They go for the espresso, they'll have cappuccino only until 11:00 AM. Lattes don't really exist. The whole Starbucks culture does not exist there. There is a fast coffee culture, but you go into the place, you have your shot of espresso, or you have your three or four sips of cappuccino, and then you go about your day. You don't take it with you. It's a multiple time a day type of affair.

You can have an espresso in the morning, then you have a late morning espresso, then you have an espresso after your lunch, and then you might have an espresso after dinner. It's infused into the culture. It's infused to how Italians live their lives. I think just because of that coupled with the fact that I grew up in America, and I always knew the importance of coffee, and I have that Starbucks culture, I have that third-wave coffee culture. I just love all kinds of coffee. I'm always experiencing.

It's like, "Oh, yes, maybe I'll have an espresso, but then I'll just have a drip coffee, and then I'll have an Americano or a cortado." It opened the doors for coffee.

David Furst: I'm ready for some coffee right now. Thank you for all of that. That sounds incredible. I have to read this text from Francesca in the Bronx, who says, "Italian-American woman here. I also felt weird with the Americans and weird at home. Chinese and McDonald's were major events. McDonald's food had to go home and be put on proper plate at the table."

Renato Poliafito: Yes.

David Furst: You agree? She says, "Of course, nothing beats my Nana's basic homemade pizza and pasta with marinara and meatballs for supper."

Renato Poliafito: Yes, that's 100% true. Sunday dinner was always an event, and we would eat Sunday dinner early in the afternoon to copy the pattern in Italy. Sundays were always like a special day. We would have pasta at 2:00 PM, 1:00 PM. Just like my mom's food is what influenced me. Watching my mom in the kitchen cook all these great dishes and showing me how to-- the intros to baking. They always stuck with me, even though when I went off, I studied design, and I was a designer for my first few years. I always cooked at home. I loved to cook at home. Now, it's become my, my profession.

David Furst: Renato, we're just about out of time, but we just went through this intense heat wave, and summers in New York are hot. Summers in the south of Italy are also known for their heat.

Renato Poliafito: Yes.

David Furst: Do you have some go-to recipes in this book to cool off on really hot days that you would recommend?

Renato Poliafito: Oh, yes, definitely. I mean, I feel like the Limoncello Pistachio Tart would be a great recipe. It's a nice, strong, delicious lemon tart with a short crust that has pistachios infused. Then I'd say anything from our spoons section. The semifreddo, for example. We have a peaches and cream semifreddo. We have granita and gelato, and then budino and panna cotta. Those are all great summertime desserts. Italians love a spoonable dessert, basically, because it gets so hot there in the summertime.

David Furst: That sounds great to me as well. Renato Poliafito, the owner of Ciao, Gloria coffee shop and bakery in Prospect Heights. His new book is Dolci: American Baking With An Italian Accent. Thank you so much for joining us.

Renato Poliafito: My pleasure. Thank you.

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