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Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. All week, we've been featuring conversations about films featured in the DOC NYC Film Festival. It's their 15th anniversary. For more information, follow on our socials, @AllOfItWNYC. Later today, we'll share all of our conversations this week featuring the films shown at DOC NYC. You can stream all of them until December 1st through the DOC NYC website at docnyc.net. If you want to catch Drop Dead City about the 1975 fiscal crisis in New York, or Left Behind about dyslexic students in New York City schools, or any of the other documentaries we've talked about, follow @AllOfItWNYC to learn more.

On to today's DOC NYC film, Slumlord Millionaire. Just yesterday, it was reported that Mayor Eric Adams has reached a deal with City Council to pass his major housing plan. The reforms would include changing zoning laws to allow for more development to make it easier to convert office buildings into apartments, and to provide subsidies for building more affordable housing. But as the tenants' rights organizers featured in Slumlord Millionaire would argue, large housing developments don't always make things better for New Yorkers who have found themselves increasingly pushed to the margins of the city's housing market.

Slumlord Millionaire features a variety of city residents trying to advocate for their rights as renters, from a family and Sunset Park who refused to cave into an abusive landlord, to a community in Chinatown fighting against luxury tower developments, to a candidate for City Council in Queens who made renters' rights central to her campaign. The film is about to screen online through December 1st as part of DOC NYC and I'm joined now by its directors, Steph Ching and Ellen Martinez. Welcome to the studio.

Ellen Martinez: Hi. Thanks for having us.

Steph Ching: Yeah, thank you for having us.

Alison Stewart: Steph, housing is a dire crisis across this country. What makes New York City unique?

Steph Ching: Oh, wow. I mean, New York City has always been a place for people from everywhere. This is where my family ended up at the very beginning when they first came to the US, so it's a place where people can find a home and this so-called American dream. But increasingly, in the last few years, housing has just made that almost impossible given the costs of rent and property taxes and everything like that. That's part of the reason why we wanted to make this film.

Alison Stewart: You filmed in some of the apartments and saw the conditions, including one family who showed you how rats chewed through their mat, Ellen. What surprised you about the conditions you saw?

Ellen Martinez: Yeah, I think that's really one of the reasons that we wanted to make the film. We've both lived here for, at this point, decades and we've all heard horrible landlord stories from friends, just on the news. But then once we really started doing research for this film and saw the extreme conditions that people were living in and the fact that they're paying rent, these are people paying rent, but because the landlord wants to make more money and kick them out, they're just terrorizing them. Either that's through lack of repairs, ignoring the infestations, or at times, which we've shown in the film, actually going into the apartment and harassing them. I think we knew this was happening, but not until we really met these people and went into their homes that it was this extreme.

Alison Stewart: Steph, what did you learn about living under the conditions where a landlord won't fix a roof that has a leak?

Steph Ching: It's definitely a prolonged tactic that a lot of these landlords use, particularly in rent stabilized buildings. In New York City, there are rent stabilization laws where if you live in one of those buildings, you are required to-- or your landlord is required to renew your lease for the next year, but they are paying lower than market rent. It's still thousands of dollars, but it's lower than the $5,000 that a one-bedroom market rate apartment might be.

For a landlord, it's much more profitable to try to deregulate the apartment, so they'll just make the conditions really awful so that the tenants will move themselves. They can't break the lease, they can't tell them to leave, but if they make it uninhabitable, a lot of the tenants will end up moving because it's just unlivable.

Alison Stewart: Some people can't afford to move [unintelligible 00:04:26].

Steph Ching: And they can't afford to move. Yeah, absolutely. A lot of people end up leaving the city and that's why you see these changing neighborhoods. A lot of these communities are being displaced and having to leave the city or go to other states and that sort of thing. So, yeah, that's part of the reason why the landlords are doing that.

Alison Stewart: Ellen, tell me about the people's physical health in these buildings where they're being ignored and also, the kids' mental health. This one family, their kids seemed really, really impacted by it.

Ellen Martinez: Yes. That's one of the more heartbreaking aspects of this, is there need to be-- it's a human right to live in a safe environment. The fact that, yes, the Bravo family, unfortunately, the children did suffer from asthma and that was directly due to the ceiling caving in and the leak just perpetuating and the mold growing and that resulted in the asthma. This is something that happens throughout the city and the country in conditions like this.

That family actually was able to fight back against their landlord and were integral in passing the Asthma Free Housing Act, which is now across the state. If a child is experiencing asthma or other health conditions due to lack of repairs, the doctor can write a note and then the landlord is legally responsible for fixing that.

Alison Stewart: My guests are Steph Ching and Ellen Martinez. We're speaking about their documentary, Slumlord Millionaire, about people fighting for tenants' rights here in New York City. You can screen the film online through December 1st as part of the DOC NYC Film Festival. Steph, one of the neighborhoods you concentrate on is Chinatown. Why has this neighborhood been the focus of the renters of renters' fighting and fighting against bad things?

Steph Ching: Yeah, part of it is Chinatown is one of the last neighborhoods that is affordable within Manhattan and there is land on the waterfront that developers want to develop. Part of it is also the zoning laws that are there, so a lot of that is available. But part of it is historically, this is a neighborhood of immigrants and low-income people who are easily taken advantage of. A lot of that has to do with language, a lot of that has to do with racism, but most of Manhattan is kind of overrun with these large developments and this is the last holdout. That's why developers are really zoning in on that one neighborhood.

Alison Stewart: What have developers used? What are the tools that they're able to use to build these huge buildings? What do you think, Ellen?

Ellen Martinez: Well, politics, I think intersects with all these different stories and our film does focus on four different aspects of the crisis. One way the developers do have influence is they insert money into local elections. We followed the story of Moumita Ahmed's campaign who ran for City Council a few years ago and she ran on a pro-tenant platform. She wanted to help tenants who were being harassed by their landlords defend their rights. But her campaign was attacked by a PAC funded by real estate developer billionaires and ultimately, she lost that election. That really showed just how much influence that the industry has in changing neighborhoods.

Alison Stewart: Yeah, why would someone like Stephen Ross be so concerned? He was the big funder of the PAC. Why would he be so concerned with a candidate for City Council like Moumita? Why would he be so concerned?

Steph Ching: Part of Moumita's platform was that she was running to organize tenants. She was trying to get tenants to organize, give them resources to form unions. We've noticed that this is happening where billionaire developers are directly attacking progressive candidates who are encouraging tenants to fight back. Also, her district is in Jamaica, Queens, which is one of the beautiful neighborhoods that has a lot of space for development.

Again, there's a lot of low-income people there, but there's also a lot of houses. It is a neighborhood that is slightly divided, so that's part of the reason why they focus on that neighborhood as well. This was very surprising to us because I think everyone understands that there is a lot of big money in national politics, but we never realized that it went all the way down to local elections, that they go down to City Council. I think that just shows how threatened these real estate developers are and how much money they're willing to put into quashing any threat to their portfolio.

Alison Stewart: As you were researching the book, did you have a line that you found for yourself between big developers and small people who own buildings who have to deal with their own problems? Because I can imagine somebody saying, "I just own. I built with this money. I bought this building. I have to deal with rents going up and taxes going up," versus the big developers. I'm wondering if you found that difference.

Ellen Martinez: Yes, of course. I think it's a very complicated issue. We did show that perspective at the end of the film when we featured the Rent Guidelines Board meetings. That it is very complicated, and I think that that's a question we hope the film raises, is if these smaller landlords are having problems, well, how can we help them so they're not terrorizing the tenants? I think that's not the answer. Of course, my making this film, we're not saying all landlords are bad. Of course, there are some very responsible landlords, but we did focus on the loopholes that people use to abuse their tenants and some of the flaws.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about the film Slumlord Millionaire. It's part of DOC NYC Fest. You can screen it online. I'm speaking to its directors, Steph Ching and Ellen Martinez. This is was a big story when it happened, deed theft. This is one of your stories. One of the subjects in your film, Janina Davis, who was a very famous model in the '90s, she made a lot of money, she bought this Clinton Hill brownstone. What were her hopes for this brownstone in her life?

Steph Ching: Yeah, she had a lot of dreams for it. She really wanted to make a home that was part of the community, a welcoming place for her neighbors. We're talking about small landlords. She was a small landlord. She owned her building and she was very close with her tenants. She also did not bump up the rate to crazy amounts just because she could. She wanted to treat her tenants how she wanted to be treated as a resident living in New York. She really wanted to contribute to and be part of the solution of housing in New York. Unfortunately, just because you own a building doesn't necessarily mean you are protected from predators within New York. That's how the deed theft story ended up in the film.

Alison Stewart: Yeah, she was essentially scammed out of her home. Ellen, would you explain to folks how she was scammed out of her home?

Ellen Martinez: Yes. Deed theft, it is a very sophisticated scam where if someone wants to steal the deed to someone's home, they will come up with some way to create some paperwork to be able to bury it deep in the paperwork.

Alison Stewart: An LLC was developed, right?

Ellen Martinez: Exactly. Yes, yes. In her case, she trusted these developers because she wanted to build on the back lot of her property. In the formation of the LLC, they ended up not adding her as a member, and then through other negotiations, ended up eventually stealing her property.

Alison Stewart: She straight out stole it. People were knocking on the doors, "You've got to get out of this house that you think you have ownership in still."

Steph Ching: Yeah.

Ellen Martinez: The wild part is-- sorry, [crosstalk].

Steph Ching: The wild part is she signed an agreement for this company. They went into business together. There were all these legal documents, so it looked all above board. It was just when they went to incorporate the business, they left her name off of the incorporation papers. She didn't realize this until years when the landlords or the new "owners" came and tried to evict her. This is one of the things that happens a lot with deed theft, is they'll of draw out these cases and a lot of times, owners won't know that they've lost the deed to their home until years later. That is one of the tactics that they use to keep it out of the court system.

Alison Stewart: Janina is someone who had resources, she's really bright, she's got kind of on the tip of what's going on. What usually happens to people who experience deed theft? That happened to her, but also could happen to someone who doesn't have the resources she has.

Ellen Martinez: Well, that's one thing we hope to-- we hope to start conversations with this film to create legislation that does provide more protections for homeowners and deed thefts because it is something that isn't spoken about a lot. We hadn't heard of it until we started making this film and unfortunately, most people do end up losing their homes at this point. There's a lot of victim-blaming because people just don't understand the level of sophistication that these scammers have.

In her case, it was through a trusted friend. A lot of times you're introduced to the person through a trusted friend. In her case, they took her out to lunch, there was this big relationship and they create this whole just fake thing to get your trust and then they legally steal the paperwork and that's it. In the courts, that's all they look at. There are many stipulations that they put in place that make it very confusing. This is something that we really hope can change with the film, just adding more legislation.

Alison Stewart: I wanted to know who the trusted friend is. After she said that, I was like, "Geez."

Steph Ching: Yeah, sometimes it's other community leaders that will connect you, sometimes it's clergy. We've heard all sorts of stories, so it is always a sophisticated network where this happens. One of the issues too is that a lot of these things aren't prosecuted. There aren't a lot of lawyers who will take on these cases. Also, there's a lot of bad lawyers who are on the side of the scammers, who help facilitate these things to happen. That's part of the reason why we really want to push for better legislation along with the laws that already are around.

Alison Stewart: One of the options is for tenants-- excuse me, on another note, the tenants can take people to Housing Court, but that can often backfire. What did tenants and attorneys tell you about the risks of going to Housing Court, Ellen?

Ellen Martinez: One risk is just the level of how much money you're able to provide, because a lot of times, these landlords, they have well paid lawyers. In Housing Court, they're just more likely to win because they have more support. Also, in the Bravos case and in many across the city, language access is an issue. If the landlord just dumps a bunch of documents in your face in English and you can't understand, that is another barrier as well. It could just drag on in court or because there are so many court cases, there's just not enough time to really consider the case. There's a lot of hallway negotiations. As the attorneys say in the movie, it's very chaotic even for them. So, yeah, it's not a guarantee for Housing Court, but it's definitely something that if tenants get together, that that is an option to do.

Alison Stewart: Mayor Eric Adams yesterday reached a deal with City Council to pass his massive housing plan. Have you had a chance to look at it? Your thoughts?

Steph Ching: A little bit. I think we'll follow the lead with our organizations to see how they want to react to this. I think any kind of discussion about improving the housing situation in New York is great, but I think the focus really does need to be on developing affordable housing. Like we see in the film, there is a lot of development and there's a lot of "affordable housing" but affordable may still mean like $3,000, $4000 for a one-bedroom and that's not affordable to most people who make the median rent in New York.

Alison Stewart: Any other thoughts on the mayor's plan?

Ellen Martinez: No, I completely agree. I think just we're-- check all the people that are in our movie, see what they think, and it's very complicated. Please, watch the film, I think, to get connected with these different organizations and hopefully, yeah, hopefully things can change.

Alison Stewart: The name of the film is Slumlord Millionaire. You can watch it as part of DOC NYC's film festival. It'll be online through December 1st. My guests have been Steph Ching and Ellen Martinez. Thank you so much for coming to the studio.

Ellen Martinez: Thank you.

Steph Ching: Thank you for having us.