[music]

David Furst: This is All Of It from WNYC. Welcome back. I'm David Furst in for Alison Stewart today. For much of this week, we're talking about Broadway because it's your last chance to catch some great shows before they close. Yesterday we heard a conversation with playwright David Henry Hwang and actor Daniel Dae Kim about Yellow Face. Today we hear about another show that is closing soon, Once Upon a Mattress, a staged version of fairy tale The Princess and the Pea. The show first debuted in 1959, was revived in 1996, and needed a little rework before opening again in 2024.

They brought in Amy Sherman-Palladino, the creator of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, to work on the book. The story centers on the schemes of Queen Aggravain, played by Ana Gasteyer, who creates impossible contests so that no woman will get to marry her son. Queen Aggravain is definitely the villain. Just look at her name, Aggra and Vain, but Gasteyer's charm makes her a villain that you have to also like. Once Upon a Mattress is playing until November 30, and when Ana Gasteyer joined Alison here on All Of It, she began by talking about the first time she saw a production of the show long before starring in it.

Ana Gasteyer: Once Upon a Mattress is one of those drama club favorites because it's just one of those shows that everybody has done in middle school. Everybody does it at summer camp. It has, first of all, a lot of parts, which is usually the baseline for these things. Everyone's done grease. There's a lot of parts whenever they have to fill it up. It's one of those shows, but it also has this-- it's a fairy tale, so it's very accessible and it's very audience friendly. User friendly.

I knew some of the music. I'm a huge Mary Rogers fan in general. I just find her an intriguing phenomenon. Just to be born in the midst of this dynastic musical theater family and also to have carved her own or paved her own way. A beautiful composer. I think the music in the show is just glorious and very much like 1959 golden era of the entertainment, just lush and romantic. The music's fantastic and joyful. Then, she wrote Freaky Friday. She did all these unusual things with her career that I really admire and I had already read.

Anyway, so that's how I knew about the show. I had read Shy. I'd read her memoir and loved it. She talks quite a bit, actually, about creating the show in it and so I was aware of it that way. Then when I got the offer, I surveyed my crew of friends and especially my SNL girls. Like, literally everybody had done Once Upon a Mattress.

Alison Stewart: Really?

Ana Gasteyer: Yes. It was a very easy thing to say yes to.

Alison Stewart: Who was in Once Upon a Mattress in the SNL crew?

Ana Gasteyer: Dratch, my go-to, Rachel Dratch had played Larkin in middle school. Amy Poehler had played Winifred in high school. It's one of those shows, people have just done it. They know it. They know the music and a lot of old-fashioned musicals. You might not actually love the music, but again, the score itself is very lovely and fun to listen to. I think it's just a pleasant evening at the theater.

Alison Stewart: You've done Broadway before. You know it's a stretch. It takes a certain amount of skill. What were you concerned about when you took the role?

Ana Gasteyer: It was only one number, which right away I was like, "Great, one number. I can go out and have drinks after," because I've played alpha, but I've done the range of roles and something that's deeply, deeply vocal. You spend your whole-- you've heard, you've spent your life like a nun. You can't do anything. Aggravain screams constantly. She's constantly yelling at people. Actually, that's the biggest physical challenge of doing the role, is just being vocally warmed up and comfortable enough to be able to holler a lot comfortably, which just takes a certain amount of technique and, frankly, sleep.

The last time I did Broadway I think my kids were 2 and 8, and now they're 22 and 16. It's just a total game changer to be able to say, get your own yogurt and get yourself to school. I'm sleeping.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: She's got a certain accent. I kind of hear a little bit of Miranda Priestly in her voice. How did you work on the accent?

Ana Gasteyer: I just wanted to play with a really aristocratic kind of-- she's the person in the kingdom that's withhold-- She's the gatekeeper, for sure, in terms of this challenge to who's going to marry her son. She's also the up-- which is my favorite character to play. I think if you look at my resume, she's the self-designated, self-appointed upkeeper of protocol and decorum. It felt fun to just settle upon the snootiest possible semi-aristocratic faux British lady, not ambiguously pompous and upper class.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Queen Aggravain rules the land.

Ana Gasteyer: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Why doesn't she want the prince to get married?

Ana Gasteyer: In the text, it's a funny thing, Lear deBessonet, our fearless leader, our director, who's actually just been named artistic director of Lincoln Center, which is really exciting. She's really great with the dramaturgy in the book. Even though it is a fairy tale and honestly, it's a big, goofy joyride of a show.

Alison Stewart: You guys look like you're having so much fun.

Ana Gasteyer: We are having so much fun. It was rooted, again, if you've read Shy, you know this-- but a lot of the comedy is rooted in vaudevillian schtick, Catskills humor. There's a true NBA star team of comedians on stage, comedic actors, so that comes really naturally. The sit down and think about the real story part, which always makes me laugh when you're doing a big, goofy show.

To answer your question, we did talk about, you have to play the stakes as though they're very, very real in a fairy tale, and they're all exaggerated components. In the text, it does say that I'm afraid that if Dauntless marries, he'll rule and I will no longer rule. It's also, we've discussed Dauntless. His name is Dauntless. Especially in Michael Urie's capable hands, he's more just idiotic portrayal, hapless prince, man-child.

I think genuinely Aggravain is probably pretty intelligent and holding the kingdom together by a thin, little thread. I think she's terrified. If you really stop and think about what's going to become of this republic under the stewardship of Winifred and Dauntless, it's a terrifying prospect because they're both very childlike and goofy and find one another in this love story between two weirdos.

Alison Stewart: You definitely play the villain, though.

Ana Gasteyer: I do play the villain.

Alison Stewart: What have you learned about playing a villain? Capital V villain?

Ana Gasteyer: That it's incredibly fun. Because I always actually have felt like I'm too mean and maybe frightening to children, but I think they like it. My daughter used to like to play the villain. It's a funny thing. I think there's a lot of power in it, and especially in a female villain. Again, in my inspirations, like I said, Miranda Priestly, but also the queen in Snow White. There's this vanity and shameless confidence to what she's doing that make it really fun.

I don't really think about playing mean as much as I think of playing the straight, stiff pole against which the noodle of Winifred can bounce. Because Winifred was originally played by Carol Burnett. It's a fantastic. Sutton is an incredibly gifted comedic, especially, I think, physical, comic. Playing, I know I'm not allowed to swear, but can I say tight-ass? The tightly wound queen. The more tensile that is, the more goofy her noodle can push against. Playing the little conversations in between that are fun.

Like when Aggravain slips. Because her soft spot and her weakness is her love for her son. She's not cruel to her son. She's controlling, which is she lives out of fear of keeping him safe and keeping him childlike, which I think, actually, most mothers of sons can relate to.

Alison Stewart: Yes, I got a 16-year-old son.

Ana Gasteyer: Yes, I have a 16-year-old as well, so it's fun. In fact, I ran my lines. We had such a fast process and it was over the summer that he would run lines with me 24/7 whenever I was home, not at rehearsal. It was fun to play those scenes against him because he's a very sweet, little affable 16-year-old.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Ana Gasteyer. We're talking about Once Upon a Mattress, will be at the Hudson Theater until November 30th. I was reading an interview with you from Northwestern, your alum, and you said you just want to make non-cynical work. You want to make--

Ana Gasteyer: Did I say that?

Alison Stewart: Yes, you said you want to make work that made people happy.

Ana Gasteyer: Oh, who knew?

Alison Stewart: Who knew?

Ana Gasteyer: No, it's funny because that's my exact-- and again, I think it's just a personal, like I'm in my third-- what am I? Third decade? Fourth decade? I don't know. I've been working for 30 years. What does that mean? I'm starting my fourth decade of entertaining. I think you grow into what your strengths are and you give in a little bit. I think early in my career I was determined to prove that I could also do drama and all other things. I feel like I have plenty of gifts that I should be taking advantage of.

It took long enough, and it's still taking long enough to convince people that I started as a singer. It's very confusing to people when you have a television image, that you're not just a sketch player, that you're not just this one thing they know you as. I started, you mentioned Northwestern. I was a voice major at Northwestern and then found improv and fell down the comedy hole, but then came back out on the other side of Saturday Night Live and did all these musicals and performed with a jazz act of my own and write music and have a Christmas album and all kind of things.

My life as a vocalist is just as valid, just not as well known. Again, I'm getting to your answer, I promise. I think giving into that, just knowing that there are certain attributes that are the ones that come to me naturally and that are, frankly, the most fun to do, are the ones I want to share with audiences. I think it's more about them and less about me in a strange way. I wrote this movie a couple of years ago with Rachel Dratch, this Hallmark Christmas parody called A Clüsterfünke Christmas.

We're actually in the process of adapting it into a musical. Working with Rachel who's a fantastic-- Tony nominee in her own right, fantastic stage actress, as well as funny girl. It's joyful. It's fun to do. I think giving up on trying to seem smart or trying to have people think I'm witty or those things, removing those elements from my work as a craftsmanship even as a songwriter, like writing Sugar and Booze, my Christmas songs, it's a relief. I think--

Alison Stewart: I think that's being in your 50s. We're about the same age. We are the same age and vintage. There's something about it where you're just like, "I'm just going to do what I want to do."

Ana Gasteyer: Screw it. Yes, curly hair. You're wearing your hair curly. I'm still, obviously, straightening mine, but it's the same idea. Just like, "This is where it is. This is what I have, and I should probably just work with what I got and what I love."

Alison Stewart: You mentioned that initially you thought you'd be an opera singer, or a music major.

Ana Gasteyer: Yes. At the time I went to Northwestern, it was a proper opera program, which, in retrospect, I'm grateful for. I actually think about it all the time playing Aggravain. Because you learn breath control, you learn how to breathe. Breathing is really the most fundamental thing in terms of using your voice either theatrically or vocally, musically. Even though I fled the music program and went on to improv, I think I probably had it in my early muscle memory.

I come from a classical music family, so that was just the assumption that that's what I would do. It wasn't really thought that-- In fact, I remember someone saying, "I think she'd be good at musical theater," and my mom going, "Musical theater?" I think she thought it was tacky. There were a lot of tacky things in my childhood references, which is ironic, because we listened to musicals all the time, and my parents love musicals, so I don't really know. I think it was just like an elevated-- It's the snob factor that's fighting against all that.

Alison Stewart: When did comedy enter the picture in school?

Ana Gasteyer: In a formal way, at Northwestern, I wrote my first sketches and performed with my first improv group my junior year. I did the Mee-Ow Show, which is a storied improv group. Julia Louis-Dreyfus, all kinds of-- Craig Bierko-- great performers, Dermot Mulroney, all came out of the Mee-Ow Show. Seth Meyers, a number of amazing comedians, and it's a fraternity in and of itself. I worked with one of my closest girlfriends now.

We did the girl thing, where we were disgusted by our lazy male counterparts and there was not enough material. We stayed up all night and we wrote, I think, like seven sketches in a night, which is insane when I think about it, because even the thick of it at SNL, maybe two sketches in a night but we were determined to--

Alison Stewart: We're going to do it.

Ana Gasteyer: Yes. We're going to do the grade A girl thing. Yes, exactly. I grew up amongst really funny people. Really, really funny people. My friends in high school were hilarious. My husband is hilarious, who I knew in high school somewhat. My parents, even though they're snooty. My mom's an amazing audience. She's the first person to laugh at herself if you do an impression of her. My dad is incredibly witty. I think I just grew up knowing that it was a value, if that makes sense.

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Ana Gasteyer: I don't know. I was still surprised when people thought I should do it. Again, whatever necessity, what is that? Invention is the mother of--

Alison Stewart: Mother necessity?

Ana Gasteyer: Necessity is the mother of inv-- that one.

Alison Stewart: Something like that.

Ana Gasteyer: I graduated from college in 1989, and there weren't a lot of examples of successful female comedic people out there. There were some. I'd grown up watching Carol Burnett, and there were people to admire but even when I got SNL in the mid-'90s, it was considered a real dodgy place for women incoming. Other comedians would say, like, "Good luck with that." I think I knew that I could do comedy and that it was a skill I could lean into, and I didn't look like all the blonde girls going to LA at the time.

Alison Stewart: You mentioned SNL. It's celebrating its 50th anniversary this year.

Ana Gasteyer: Yes.

Alison Stewart: What do you think you learned about the business by working at SNL?

Ana Gasteyer: That's an excellent question. It is not what people usually ask you about SNL. So thank you for asking me that instead of who my favorite hosts were. I think I learned a couple of things. I learned that it really is more of a meritocracy than you would think. I think that there are these presumptions about fairness that are, or at least if you're me, that you can spend a lot of time stewing about. The reality is, for all the frustrations with the competitive atmosphere there, most good work eventually makes it to the air there.

It may not make it in a way that feels loving or kind or even rolled out as a red carpet for you, but overall, a good sketch cut through eventually. There was a sense of goodwill towards even independent voices there, voices, weirdo writers that maybe took a minute to find their footing. Once they were established in the community, there was support for that work. I also learned that it's all about community. That's not the value system of Saturday Night Live, per se.

It is something of a famous gladiator bit in terms of their approach to work and how it is generated, mostly. That's also because it's done on such a quick timeline. The camaraderie and the fraternity and the shorthand of people who have been through that, who work in that way, who think quickly on their feet, the mutant skin that everybody shares on that program, having survived live late-night television lasts for a lifetime.

Like I wrote-- I think Dratch and I wrote two sketches together, and then we've now written two movies together. Jorma Taccone of the Lonely Island. I never was on the show with him, but when I needed someone to direct my first music video, I was like, "Oh, I'll call Jorma." The immediacy with which we speak the same language and the immediacy with which people want to cast one another and take care of one another is really a surprise and a delight.

Then the most industry-related answer is that I was going to say that image is important, maintaining a certain amount of whatever that means to you. Lorne is a super genius about image, how people look in the media and how they-- whether or not they're using the show as a host to rebound from a crisis or they want to look a little bit more fun, or even Mary Ellen Matthews amazing photographs and those bumpers, the way that she can manipulate the idea of a chameleon. It's a really masterful place that way.

Alison Stewart: You are well known for the beloved character of Margaret Jo-McCullen, co-host of an [unintelligible 00:18:55] NPR show.

Ana Gasteyer: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to a little bit of the Delicious Dish.

[music]

Margaret Jo McCullen: Hello, I'm Margaret Jo McCullen.

Teri Rialto: I'm Teri Rialto.

Margaret Jo McCullen: And you're listening to the Delicious Dish on National Public Radio. Now, Teri, the days are getting longer and the mercury is rising.

Teri Rialto: It sure is, Margaret Jo. That can only mean one thing. Summer.

Margaret Jo McCullen: Summer.

[laughter]

Margaret Jo McCullen: Now, one of my favorite things about Summer is that you can have your meals outside.

Teri Rialto: That is neat.

Margaret Jo McCullen: Yes, it's fun because it's warm. It's warm outside.

Teri Rialto: Yes. Summer's my favorite season.

Margaret Jo McCullen: Same here. 'Cause it's hotter than the rest of the year.

Teri Rialto: Yes, it sure is.

Margaret Jo McCullen: Yes. It's neat, isn't it?

Teri Rialto: It's fun.

Margaret Jo McCullen: It's neat.

Teri Rialto: It's neat.

Alison Stewart: It's fun.

Ana Gasteyer: It's neat.

Alison Stewart: The funny part about that, what are you looking at? When you were doing that skit? There's a visual of your eyes just kind of staring off into nowhere.

Ana Gasteyer: I think I want to-- Boy, again, really perceptive. What we had fun with is the idea that they're truly not aware of how much time they are taking on the radio, which I might be accused of today. The gift of public radio is that they do not have to cut to commercial-

Alison Stewart: No, you don't.

Ana Gasteyer: -and so you can really-- Last summer I was running errands and cleaning up around my house, and I suddenly realized I'd been listening to the same story about mead making on NPR. I swear, it had been like-- I was like, "It has been like an hour and a half, and this man is still talking about his mead enterprises." There's something just delightful about the lack of self-awareness and the-- Our most fun things would be like when they would-- I think it was the second one we ever did, where they'd be looking at photographs, and it's a non-visual medium. Again, just not really very aware that they're on the radio and that they might want to speed it up.

Alison Stewart: My friend's daughter was just named to Saturday Night Live.

Ana Gasteyer: Oh, my gosh.

Alison Stewart: She's one of the three that was named.

Ana Gasteyer: That's so exciting.

Alison Stewart: What advice would you give her?

Ana Gasteyer: Oh, boy. Well, I'll call her and take her to lunch if you want. That's one of my favorite activities.

Alison Stewart: Oh, thanks. There you go, Jane.

Ana Gasteyer: I love to mentor the young. I think, again, I was going to say this, actually, when I was waxing poetic on my reflections. The whole nature of improvisation is this now famous phrase. Yes, and. Working with what's in front of you and making the best of each opportunity. I think even in the depth of a pressure cooker, risking and failing and risking and failing, it's really hard there because you're under such a microscope, and even internally in the workplace, you're new and you've got to fit in, so you've got to figure out how to read the room. There's a ton of personalities that aren't always inside the--

Alison Stewart: Just a lot of personalities in a little room.

Ana Gasteyer: Yes. In a big room. A lot of ego and anxiety. A lot of anxiety. Just from time and pressure and all that. I think just you know a writer wants to write something for you, lean in and enjoy it. You want to get to know a new writer. Knock on a door and get to know them. Want to collaborate with new people, again, you have to constantly say yes to the situations rather than worrying about what's not going to work because there's plenty that's not going to work. Everyone there is incredibly talented, so finding the parts of it that are the most fun for you.

Alison Stewart: You did a walk for New York Fashion Week.

Ana Gasteyer: I did. I know, wasn't that fancy.

Alison Stewart: There were dogs involved.

Ana Gasteyer: There were rescue animals.

Alison Stewart: Tell me about that.

Ana Gasteyer: It was so fun. It was Rachel Antonoff, and she's a friend, and she lives in Brooklyn.

Alison Stewart: She's great.

Ana Gasteyer: She's great and she's playful. She has a dog that looks very similar to my dog and is also similarly violent to strangers at times. We've bonded over that. She's a very charming dog, but also hilariously hostile. His name is Lafitte. Which really makes me laugh. He looks a lot like Gloria, my dog. We actually met on the street because our dogs look so similar, and she's loaned me clothes. She's a real animal lover. Her concept, which was fantastic, was a dog show, in the proper Kennel Club-

Alison Stewart: Oh, sure, yes.

Ana Gasteyer: -model. We had rescue dogs from Animal Haven, and it was this amazing-- She collects great people, so it was just an incredible collection of all comics that I love. Brigitte Everett was the judge, and Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak were the color commentary, and Chris Fleming, all kinds of great comics were there, and personalities from Broadway and everywhere. It was really, really fun. I had a dog, unfortunately, who still had his balls, and so was a little bit aggressive towards the other dogs. He was a 10-year-old beagle. It wasn't his fault, but so I carried him, and then he was asked to leave the arena due to his behavior issues but it happens. It happens to all of us.

Alison Stewart: It happens. Sometimes it happens to me. You know, we all try.

David Furst: That was Alison's conversation with Ana Gasteyer, who stars as Queen Aggravain in the Broadway product of Once Upon a Mattress, which is running at the Hudson Theater until November 30th.