[MUSIC]

David Furst: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm David Furst. Igmar Thomas and his Revive Big Band have played with artists that you don't always get to hear with big band arrangements. LL Cool J, Queen Latifah and many more have all collaborated with the group. And now, after 14 active years, the Revive Big Band has just released its debut album called Like A Tree It Grows. Let's listen to a piece from the project. This is R&P.

[MUSIC - Igmar Thomas' Revive Big Band: R&P]

R&P was composed by trumpeter Igmar Thomas, who is also the artistic director for the Revive Big Band. The album also features arrangements of songs by greats like Wayne Shorter and Thelonious Monk. The mission of the group is to bridge jazz and hip hop and celebrate the roots of Black music. The album is called Like A Tree It Grows. It is out now and Igmar Thomas is with us in the studio for a Listening Party. Welcome to WNYC.

Igmar Thomas: Thank you for having me.

David Furst: First of all, your group sounds amazing.

Igmar Thomas: Thanks.

David Furst: It sounds like this is a group that has done a lot of rehearsing.

Igmar Thomas: Quite a bit over the years. Yeah, we got it in.

David Furst: The back and forth between all of that brass syncopation there, it's mind blowing.

Igmar Thomas: Oh, thank you very much.

David Furst: Now, the Revive Big Band has been operating for 14 years, as I mentioned. Yet this album, Like A Tree It Grows, is the group's debut album. Why was now the time that you wanted to record and put something out?

Igmar Thomas: Well, life. The band is a very organic being and our journey is quite the story to tell, but it only exists because of opportunities provided by the late great Meghan Stabile. Basically, I had an idea and then she presented an opportunity. It went so well, we just kept doing it. I wanted to record for such a long time, but between going on tour and being a music director and other things going left or right, we actually were going to record and put it out in 2015 and basically it came down to a budget thing. Eventually through my touring, I decided to front the recording, so that's part of the story.

David Furst: It's never inexpensive getting into a recording studio, but especially when you're talking about a group like this, a large group of musicians.

Igmar Thomas: It's extremely large and it's an on-taking, but it's like breathing to me, especially at this point. Like, I remember how we started and how hard it was versus to where I am now. It's very like automatic. When I bring in new people to the fold, I'm always reminded of like, "Okay, let me walk you through this."

David Furst: Well, the Revive Big Band was formed in 2010. You touched on this a little bit, but what is the origin story of the group?

Igmar Thomas: Yeah, so essentially, I started a jam session in Harlem and a production company that I started with my roommates at the time, Meghan Stabile, Raydar Ellis, and some others, was called Revive Music Group. We started the jam session with Revive. It became very popular to the point that everybody who paid didn't get to play on stage. I was like, "How do we get to play? How do we get to play?" Coming back from the gig one day, I was like, light bulb, big band. I came up in the public school system, many of us have, or whatever, so college, public schools, they have big bands.

Eventually an opportunity came by where Meghan was like, "Hey, I have the CareFusion Jazz Festival, formerly known as the JVC Jazz Festival, put on by the late, great George Wein." She's like, "Yeah, I have this gig. Let's do a big band," and I was like, "Oh, okay. Let's bring in Nick, Nicholas Payton." He was down and one thing led to another. I didn't plan on writing, but it fell in my lap because it was my bright idea. I wrote a whole set of music, and it went great, and that's the story.

David Furst: Aside from all the practical reasons why you're working in this format, what interests you about that big band format as compared to writing for or playing with a quartet or a trio?

Igmar Thomas: It's many things. Of course, people hear power with that many musicians in a big band, but it also has many nuances. There's so many different extremes. Then as a writer, I always hear music in my head all the time. Like now, I still hear R&P right now, literally. It allows me to-- sometimes before this, I got frustrated not hearing things executed to a T or the way that I might kind of remix them or whatever. It was to the point where I had to get that out. This turned in organically to being that opportunity. I write everything, so all the parts are kind of an extension of myself. You don't have that experience with four people. It's very like we improvise.

David Furst: Well, you have some absolutely irresistible and intricate arrangements on this album. The back and forth brass hits, the group interplay, the wild syncopation. What is your composition and arrangement process when you are talking about this level of complexity?

Igmar Thomas: It always has been-- well, the time has gotten shorter, but it's usually lock myself in a room for two weeks, slide food under the door.

David Furst: You really need to get isolated and focus in.

Igmar Thomas: Yeah. Well, actually, no. I'm the person that can be in the middle of-- I could be on the side of the road, on the bottom of a trash can. All of this has happened when everything else in life happens at the same time. It piles on. I'm very good at being in the middle of traffic, if you will and I have a very laser focus. Yeah.

David Furst: Let's hear another one of the compositions from the new album. This one is called The Coming.

[MUSIC - Igmar Thomas' Revive Big Band: The Coming]

David Furst: Oh, my gosh. That's called The Coming from Like A Tree It Grows, the debut album from Igmar Thomas' Revive Big Band. Where does this come from? I could just see you working on each one of these sections and thinking, "How much further can I take this?"

Igmar Thomas: Yeah, even that spot we ended on. I remember when I was writing it and I was like, "Man, are the trumpets going to forgive me?" because--

David Furst: I used to play trumpet and I'm going to tell you, I don't think-- Well, I wouldn't be able to forgive you because I wouldn't be able to play it.

Igmar Thomas: Well, interestingly enough, I guess you could say three things, and they're all trumpet players, they justified it. Roy Hargrove, Nicholas Payton, and originally, Dizzy Gillespie, who had my favorite-- he was my favorite big band. I think my dad's listening. When I was in high school, he grounded me because my grades could have been better. I wasn't supposed to listen to music and stuff, but I had these little speakers and when I was going to bed, I'd put them like to my pillow and I'd be listening to Louie Armstrong and Dizzy Gillespie. That was like my first real love for big band.

I knew Count Basie and stuff already, but the stuff his trumpet section would do and the type of music and technical prowess they displayed consistently in the way that Dizzy wrote, it was always very inspiring and it was in my heart. Between that, Nicholas was like, "Write what's in your head," and Roy pretty much said the same thing, Roy Hargrove. That kind of justified it and then I still got friends that play in my big band that play trumpet, so they forgive me.

David Furst: They forgive you. Well, a big shout out to your dad.

Igmar Thomas: Yeah, yeah.

David Furst: If he is listening.

Igmar Thomas: Yeah. Shout out, Dad.

David Furst: I want to talk about the title of this album, Like A Tree It Grows. This album title hints at roots. You've said about this project that you want this album to help people understand that all Black music can be traced back to one root. Can you talk about what that means to you? What is that root?

Igmar Thomas: Well, the title in itself, along with the album cover that I commissioned was actually done on a canvas and then we put it on the cover, but it's an entendre. In that context, perhaps take the Black American music continuum, shout out to Nicholas Payton. What precedes jazz is the blues and there's things that precede that. You can talk about different slave chants and chain gang chants and things of that nature. So essentially, it's just like a family tree, you understand?

I did a show in 2016 at Summer Stage where it's like the legacy of Black music, a journey through the legacy. We started with the blues, and we went through jazz, and we went through what preceded rock and roll, and we had soul, and we did it all in order funk on and up to the present day. That's pretty much in that aspect, where it's coming from. All of that is actually more closely related.

I always use the metaphor of hip hop and jazz, for example, it's like a grandfather and a grandson. They dress different, they might have a different lingo, they're speaking the same language most times, but that's their family, that's their blood, and it just kind of branches out into different things. That's how music grown, despite these categorizations, and that's what the band is.

David Furst: Well, you take on a legendary jazz figure on this album, Wayne Shorter, legendary saxophonist, a composer, originally from Newark, New Jersey, who passed away last year. Let's listen to your arrangement right now. This is of Wayne Shorter's Speak No Evil.

[MUSIC - Igmar Thomas Revive Big Band: Speak No Evil]

David Furst: Can you talk a little about Wayne Shorter's contribution to jazz and why you wanted to perform one of his compositions, what you wanted to bring to one of his compositions?

Igmar Thomas: Yeah. Wayne Shorter is actually one of my favorite artists of all time. I love his writing. I went to Berklee. I remember at jam sessions and at different-- even in California, where I'm from, I always love Wayne's songs, but they're not always played at jam sessions, so that's where it started for me. I actually was hearing this arrangement for years, I guess you can say-

David Furst: Wow.

Igmar Thomas: -and then eventually I was posed, thanks to Meghan Stabile, with a tribute to Wayne and Freddie Hubbard. This song was a result of that commission and it actually is one of the most sought-after songs that I sell to universities and things like that for this arrangement.

David Furst: You sell this arrangement to universities so they can perform this version?

Igmar Thomas: They do in many high schools, to my surprise.

David Furst: Wow.

Igmar Thomas: Yeah. High school's professional bands. It's through Carnegie Hall, all around the country, the UK, that's by far their favorite one to purchase amongst others.

David Furst: Very cool.

Igmar Thomas: Yeah, it resonates.

David Furst: We're going to hear more from Like A Tree It Grows, the debut album from trumpeter and bandleader Igmar Thomas and his Revive Big Band, coming up next. This is All Of It here on WNYC.

[MUSIC]

David Furst: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm David Furst and we're having a Listening Party right now with trumpeter and bandleader Ingmar Thomas playing music from his new album, Like A Tree It Grows, the Igmar Thomas Revive Big Band. I wanted to ask you about your beginning career in music. You grew up in San Diego.

Igmar Thomas: Yeah.

David Furst: And started playing trumpet at a young age. And later you studied at the Berklee College of Music. What was your initial introduction to music?

Igmar Thomas: Again, my dad, mostly because he was the commander of the music in the house, so--

David Furst: Commander of what? What it have [unintelligible 00:14:52] table?

Igmar Thomas: He was the DJ. Yes, he was the DJ. He put on all the music and the neighbors should be able to hear it too. His collection, more importantly, it had a large variety of music.

David Furst: What were you listening to?

Igmar Thomas: Well, there was jazz, but my parents are from Panama, so they also have, okay, salsa, but he listened to Fela Kuti. He listened to Michael Jackson, some James Brown and Gap Band and everything from like the '50s on up to now. He has some rap in there, soul, R&B, funk, Afrobeat, and then he's still growing that collection.

David Furst: Do you feel all of that music, all of those roots in your work?

Igmar Thomas: Yeah, that's why I'm able to really interpret things the way that I do. Whether it's doing it with a big band or orchestra for hip hop, you don't really see those situations with a hip hop artist, so I interpret that. It goes over pretty well at least.

David Furst: When you're playing with hip hop artist?

Igmar Thomas: Successfully, yeah. Backing an artist or we feature them with my group. That goes over and it's not always done to a T. I feel I am different in that way, but that translates to most things contemporary. I'm raised as a jazz musician. You can call me whatever it is. I remember I did a tour with Fred Wesley and I walk into the first rehearsal--

David Furst: Oh, wow. Trombone?

Igmar Thomas: Uncle Fred, yeah.

David Furst: Yes.

Igmar Thomas: Music director for James Brown.

David Furst: Yes.

Igmar Thomas: Hit Me, Fred. I walk into the first rehearsal and he's like, "So, Igmar, tell me, what is a hip hop trumpeter?"

David Furst: What was your answer? Or did you just demonstrate?

Igmar Thomas: I was like, "I wouldn't even know what to tell you." Yeah, keep in mind, at that time, it was probably the early 2000s. I've always been the same. I may have my hat, I'm in a jazz lane most of the time or whatever, so there's certain stigmatizations that may come along with that. It was a fast turnaround to see where we are now versus some of those shots I took back in the day in certain ways. That wasn't a shot. That's just a memorable, impressionable moment, but I didn't have an explanation. I was just like, "Yeah, I do things in different lanes and I think the lanes are more like a tree."

David Furst: Well, let's veer into that jazz lane again right now. You also play some Thelonious Monk on this album, his piece, Thelonious, named after himself. What attracted you to this one?

Igmar Thomas: Commissioned to do this with Summer Stage, and it was a part of that show I mentioned, a journey through the legacy of Black culture. I had him represent the transition of like, I want to say the 50s, and I did it in a big band format. I wanted to display how closely they're related in that tree, so grandfather, grandson, the middle of it.

I actually recorded this on the album as three tracks, but it's titled Thelonious, Thelonious. It goes from his song, his standard into a J. Dilla song, produced song that Common released, also titled Thelonius without the O. That came out on Like Water for Chocolate. That's where the hip hop featuring Talib Kweli comes in. I fused the melody, the head from Thelonious Monk's jazz standard over the J. Dilla song. Then at the end of that, I have my own little composition on the album called Lonius, but it's all one thing, really. It's like a suite, if you will.

David Furst: Well, let's hear a little bit of those back-to-back. This is right here, your take on Thelonious Monk's Thelonious.

[MUSIC - Thelonius Monk: Thelonious]

David Furst: And let's hear a little bit of Thelonius minus the second O.

[MUSIC - Thelonius]

David Furst: Really cool to hear those back-to-back. Do you think that could have maybe helped answer Fred's question about what's a hip hop trumpeter?

Igmar Thomas: Perhaps. Yes. If I could have showed him in that moment, I think that would have described it perfect.

David Furst: When you bring those two together like that back-to-back, that seems to really speak to what you're talking about, like a tree, it grows, the evolution of this music.

Igmar Thomas: Absolutely. That again, that just naturally, it comes out of me pretty easily. And I think that is kind of the bigger, broader point. Like you heard Jill Scott may have said, "Don't put me in a box," and different artists have said that. So I'm saying that as an artist, it's not really a box, it's more just like a family tree. There's no straight lines in nature.

David Furst: As someone who has been in music for a pretty long period of time now, what advice do you have for younger musicians coming up now, either in the jazz or the hip hop scene?

Igmar Thomas: Be it now. You have a vision and that's the person that you need to be right now. You shouldn't wait. You should invest all of your emotions and your time and surround yourself in that environment and be that vision now. You don't have to wait. You'll learn things and when you have questions, you should always have them. The more people you ask, the more right lanes you usually end up in.

David Furst: Is there a piece of advice that you wish you had gotten earlier in your career?

Igmar Thomas: Man, I feel like I got it. Shout out to all the mentors and big brothers and sisters and stuff. Lionel Hampton, Roy Hargrove, Nicholas Payton, even Gilbert Castellanos, Dan Terry. A lot of people that really, you know. It takes a village that invested in me.

David Furst: Whenever I think about a career in music, I hear a lot of musicians say when they were thinking about, "Should I pursue a music career?" it was like all in. There was no plan B.

Igmar Thomas: Yeah, and I couldn’t even imagine doing something else. You have to be aware of yourself. I guess I was blessed at a younger age to have a certain amount of awareness. My story is pretty much like I took care of the trumpet and it took care of me. I've been blessed to the point that that's been my story. I have my first job now in life, so I'm employed for the first time as a professor.

David Furst: Wow.

Igmar Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, but that has kind of been my story. You have signs along the way of which routes you should take for the kids out there.

David Furst: Well, congratulations on the new album. It is called Like A Tree It Grows, the debut album from trumpeter and band leader Igmar Thomas and your Revive Big Band. Let's hear one more song. This is Play It Back. This features organist Dr. Lonnie Smith.

Igmar Thomas: Yes. This is his last recording-

David Furst: He passed away in 2021.

Igmar Thomas: -before he passed. I did it in his house.

David Furst: Whoa. What was special about how he played the organ?

Igmar Thomas: He is a light. I featured him on several big band shows and he's just such a light, so shout out to Dr. Lonnie.

[MUSIC - Revive Big Band, Dr. Lonnie Smith: Play It Back]

David Furst: Shout out very much. And thank you so much for joining us today. Congratulations on the new album.

Igmar Thomas: Appreciate it.