[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: Citysong]

Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar in for Alison Stewart. You might have heard us talking about our public song project. This is a way to invite you to take a work of art in the public domain, creatively adapt it, and share it with us on WNYC. At the end, we'll post all the qualifying entries in one place for everyone to hear, and you may get a chance to talk about it on our show. We're accepting submissions through May 12th. For more information on the project and how to participate, head to wnyc.org/publicsongproject.

Now we have an exciting update. Today, Lincoln Center announced their Summer for the City festival and the Public Song Project will be a part of it. On July 20th, we'll bring the Public Song Project to one of Lincoln Center's summer stages in a concert featuring some of the special guest contributors whose songs you've heard on air so far. We'll also be spotlighting members of the public like you.

For more information on The People's Concert, you can check out summerforthecity.org. That's summerforthecity.org. Again, for more info on how to get involved in the project by submitting a song before May 12th, go to wnyc.org/publicsongproject.

All right, that's in the future. Now let's get this hour started with Sarah Davis, the founder of Olive You Nanny.

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Kousha Navidar: Did you ever babysit? Maybe you were like me and babysitting was your first job when you were a teenager, and it was a fun way to make cash, or maybe you were a nanny and made childcare your career. We can imagine the challenges; rambunctious kids, negotiating fair pay and benefits, parents who overstep boundaries. Conversely, these relationships can be wonderful, fulfilling, and meaningful. In fact, a family my fiancé nannied for is coming to our wedding next month.

The nannying experience, in many ways, it can run the gamut and as can the search for childcare. On one hand, you might have a go-to person who's enthusiastic and reliable and becomes part of your family. On the other, you can be overwhelmed with options, unsure if that person you found on your Facebook group is legit and how to balance cost with peace of mind. After all, in the beginning, you're trusting a stranger with your kids.

Sarah Davis knows exactly how you feel. She's been working in the nannying business for over 25 years, but when she started out, she was frustrated at the lack of transparency and the hurdles she had to face to find the right job. It eventually led her to create her own nannying agency. It's called Olive You Nanny, and they connect families with high-quality nannies. That's why today she's here with us to talk about the dos and don'ts of caregiving for both families and job seekers.

Sarah, hi. Welcome to All Of It.

Sarah Davis: Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. Listeners, we want to hear your story. Have you had trouble looking for a nanny or a babysitter? What's been the biggest hurdle for you? Or have you worked as a nanny or a babysitter? We want to hear your experiences. Call us, text us. We're at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. Or you can DM us on Instagram, we're @allofitwnyc. Sarah, let's get to definitions first. Babysitting, nannying, can you break down these two terms, please, what they share, how they're different?

Sarah Davis: Certainly. Babysitters usually are younger and then they usually work nights and weekends. If you need a date night or you have something going on the weekend for a couple of hours, that's typically going to be your babysitter. It doesn't usually exceed over five to eight hours or so, and it's more sporadic, and occasional.

Nannies are going to be your employee and so typically they'll work either part-time, full-time position, but they are just with your family, so they are employees of your family. Schedules can vary from all kinds of things from part-time, full-time, house manager, nanny share, all that good stuff but they work for your family and are an employee.

Kousha Navidar: How did you get started in the business? What problems did you notice when you were working as a professional?

Sarah Davis: I started nannying in the summers when I was younger, and then I moved out to San Francisco and I was a nanny there full time. Then I moved to Denver, I nannied there and then I ended up in Chicago and nannied there as well.

When I was in Chicago, I think I was about 22 years old and I was a career nanny at that point. I had nannied for three years and worked for several different families. I just felt like the connection was just the most important thing over anything else. Really relating to a family, getting to know a family, understanding personality-wise how you become a fit. I'd worked with a few agencies in Chicago and did some research, and I just felt like they were really lacking that matchmaking.

For me, in having my company, it's really important for me to sit down with our families and our nannies to understand who they are on a personal level. Are they type A? Are they more creative? What's their Enneagram like? All these kinds of questions really lead me into the placement of somebody with a family, just based on all of that information.

Every once in a while, I'll get a family that says, "Oh, my gosh, this feels like a therapy session." I'm like, "I just need information." It's all about that connection. Felt like early on, other agencies and just looking on your own even, you don't know that unless you have experience with that. That's why I started the company.

Kousha Navidar: Listeners, this is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar, and we're talking with Sarah Davis, who's the founder of Olive You Nanny. It's a nannying service and it connects nannies with families. We're talking about nannying, childcare, babysitting. We want to hear your story. Have you had trouble looking for a nanny? What's been the biggest hurdle for you?

What is your experience as a babysitter maybe? What questions do you have for us? Give us a call, send us a text. We're at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. Maybe you've worked as a nanny before and you have experience you want to share, 212-433-9692, or on social, we're @allofitwnyc.

Sarah, okay, so say, I'm a new parent and I want a nanny for my newborn. What are some considerations I should first look out for?

Sarah Davis: Definitely have a list of expectations. I think right away from the get-go in looking for any nanny candidate, you want to be able to sit down before you even start your search and talk about expectations that you have. Whether that be, we need somebody who can not only take care of the baby, but also walk the dog, or somebody who can you know, do some stuff around the house like laundry and house manager stuff, whether it's unloading the dishwasher or picking up groceries.

Or maybe you're a family that has a crazy schedule, maybe you're doctors and maybe you are on call so you need somebody with a lot of flexibility. Depending on what your family dynamic is and what your household is like, you want to sit down and make sure you write a list of those expectations because that's going to be the guide into interviewing candidates.

Because right away you don't want to waste your time, so you want to be able to throw all of this out there when starting to search for a nanny so that you only actually interview candidates who you know are going to be a good fit in terms of your expectations.

Kousha Navidar: How do you actually find a nanny? How do you go about searching for nannies? Do online portals like Care.com or UrbanSitter work? How legitimate are they?

Sarah Davis: That's the secret sauce of my company, so I can't give up too many secrets. If you're doing a search on your own, I would just say sometimes those kinds of sites are a needle in the haystack, so just be prepared for that. Make sure you have a lot of time, you have interview questions set to go so you know exactly what to ask. I really care a lot about references too.

When you start doing that search, talking to references other families this person has worked for, and then also of course, longevity. Looking at their resume, making sure that they've been with another family long enough where they're not jumping around everywhere and there's a bunch of other things on their resume. Definitely look for those kinds of things.

When looking on more of those bigger platforms, just be prepared that this is the era of ghosting. That wasn't my era. Nowadays, a lot of these younger people, they just don't write you back. Be prepared for that because that is definitely going to happen on those kinds of platforms. It's just a much broader search when doing it that way.

Kousha Navidar: Can you break down the different types of nannies? I understand there are full-service ones, part-time. Talk us through the categories.

Sarah Davis: Yes. Full-time's your typical. Let's just say in this scenario you just had a baby, and let's say you and your partner work from 8:00 to 5:00 standard hours. That's going to just be your normal full-time search. It also depends a little bit upon how long you want this candidate to be your nanny. If you're looking for somebody just for a year because you eventually want to put your kiddo in daycare, just have that in mind that you only need someone for a year.

If you want somebody to grow with your family, if you're going to have more kids, if you're going to shift that role into more of a house manager role, maybe you want a nanny for the next eight years. Depending on what you're looking for, you want to make sure that you're searching for that. Then there's part-time. A lot of times part-time can look like maybe a couple of days a week, whether it's two or three days a week, maybe the person works part-time, or maybe just needs some time away to get errands done or whatever.

Then there's also house manager. House manager is going to be when your kids are a little bit older. Typically, your kids are in school and you're working full-time, typically. Your nanny will come over earlier in the day, go do grocery shopping, organizing, running errands, kind of a personal assistant-ish, and then pick up kiddos from school. Then there's of course nighttime care and all that good stuff too. There's a lot of different options out there.

Kousha Navidar: We would love to hear some experiences that folks have with nannying or being a babysitter. We would love to know what led you to caregiving, and what about the field is meaningful, and what could be improved. We're talking with Sarah Davis who's the founder of Olive You Nanny, which is a nannying service, and we want to hear your stories. Give us a call, send us a text. We're at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC.

Sarah, we've got a caller I'd love to bring down. This is Madison from Brooklyn. Hey, Madison. You've got some experience nannying, it sounds like.

Madison: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Yes, I was a career nanny here in Brooklyn, New York. I actually was with a family at the start of COVID-19, which was a unique experience and ended up living with them full-time during the first 10 weeks of all that uncertainty. After that I moved into more, once the kids went back to school, full-time house manager role and then switched to part-time, which allowed me to start my doula career.

Now I'm no longer with that family, but I'm a postpartum doula, so I am often times families' first interaction with, "Do you know any nannies? Do you know of any childcare?" With my own personal experience, I'm fortunate that I get to break down of what it looks like to have all of the examples you just listed, full-time, part-time, house manager. Yes, so lots of experience.

I have to say that the three kids that I nannied for four years are the absolute best. Just hearing what you're saying about kids coming to your wedding is so special because I have that same type of connection with these kids and this family.

Kousha Navidar: Was that a connection you were expecting to form, or did it come as a surprise to you, Madison?

Madison: I think the level of intimacy in which this family and I have now, I like to think would've formed regardless of COVID. I think that definitely played a factor in how close we all got. It's something that I think about all the time, especially now that I do really intimate work as a doula. Being a nanny, someone that provides childcare, you're protecting and watching and fostering people's most valuable possessions. With that comes that intimate nature. No, I wasn't surprised, but fortunate that I was in a position where it was an equitable, healthy, intimate relationship.

Kousha Navidar: Madison, thank you so much for calling. Sarah, I'll bring it to you. Sounds like COVID made a big difference in Madison's experience. Do you hear that a lot? Has the landscape changed because of and since COVID?

Sarah Davis: Oh my gosh, absolutely. I was talking pre-COVID and post-COVID. It's actually changed a ton. To Madison's point, I think that happened a lot where nannies stayed with their families. For me as an agency owner, I was like, "Where are all the nannies?" I'm easy for me to connect with nannies, I'm constantly interviewing, talking to nannies, and during COVID, everything just stayed put.

Most nannies, just like Madison's situation, everyone stayed with their families because the families don't want their nannies to be going out and about and they were, "Either you can come live with us so that we're all safe or you're only working with our family, there's no outside babysitting or any other families."

A lot of families even said, "Okay, we're going to actually pay you a little bit more just to stay here and not be exposed to other kiddos and other families."

Yes, that definitely changed a lot where a lot of nannies stayed put and stayed with their families, which I think is great. Based on what Madison was saying, I think it's so great too because you do grow your relationship and you're there all the time. Being a nanny is you are intimately a part of the family. There are things you don't want to know that you know because you're in that situation with the family. You know what's going on with people's marriages, you know what's going on with financials. You're there.

I love that Madison was with her family for so long because I love those stories, and having that intimate connection is really at the end of the day what it's all about.

Kousha Navidar: Madison, thank you again for calling. Listeners, we want to hear your story. If you have experience being a nanny, looking for a nanny, or looking for a babysitter, being a babysitter. We want to hear your questions. We want to hear your experience. We want to hear why it was meaningful. We want to hear what you think could be improved.

We're here with Sarah Madison, she's got experience as a nanny and she's founder of an agency that connects folks with nannies called Olive You Nanny. You can reach us at 212-433-9692. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, I'd love to get into payment, which is something you mentioned, Madison, and the cost of finding this kind of childcare services. This is All Of It, we'll be right back.

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Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar, and we are talking about childcare, specifically nannies, babysitters, finding them, trying to become one, questions you have. We're here with Sarah Davis, the founder of Olive You Nanny, which is a service that connects nannies with families. Listeners, we've been taking your calls and your comments.

If you have experience in this area of childcare, we would love to hear your stories. If you are looking for somebody and you have questions, or you have looked for somebody in the past and you have experiences, we're here for that too. Give us a call, send us a text. We're at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC.

Sarah, we have a caller who had to drop off unfortunately, but she had an interesting thought. This is [unintelligible 00:17:18] from Windsor Terrace that says that, "Childcare and nannying is getting really expensive. Even high schoolers are demanding $20 an hour." What's your experience? Are you seeing costs rise? What goes into that? What seems fair and negotiable? Talk to us about that.

Sarah Davis: 100%. This is where I talk about the pre-COVID and post-COVID. Pay has gone-- it just has gone completely up post-COVID. Pre-COVID, really it was kind of the industry standards, which were really across the board any big city, everyone is pretty in line with each other. COVID happened, nannies were impossible to find. Nannies were staying with their families, they were not looking for new jobs. I know during COVID for literally the two years, I would have dozens and dozens of families and nannies were just unattainable. You just couldn't find them.

Now, post-COVID nannies are coming back, so I'm very excited about that, but they're coming back with as-- they want a pretty penny. I always tell my families, I'm like, "It's a nanny's world. You guys are just living in it." It has gone up substantially in the last year where I'll have nannies coming to me that are requesting, $35 to $40 to $45 an hour. Now, nanny, they're worth it, they have an education, they have experience, they're amazing, they have Montessori background, whatever they might have.

However, families can't afford it. It's this supply and demand issue where families are coming to me saying they want to pay X and they can't afford that. It's slowly over time, I think families are looking for different resources. They're going with daycare, they're looking for in-home care, other people's homes, and in-home daycare. The nanny industry has suffered a bit because of that, because nannies are just really more up in the higher level of pay than families are willing to pay.

One thing that I often talk about with families is the option of a nanny share. Having a nanny is a luxury, and I know a lot of people can't afford to have a nanny. However, I've just done a bunch of research on this topic of nanny shares and what people typically pay in a daycare setting. A nanny share is when you have two families, and they share one nanny. Typically, about the same kind of hours, kiddos are the same age.

The nanny will watch after two kids and the families each pay half of her salary, which makes it more attainable just in that the nanny's getting what she's requesting or he's requesting, and the families are able to pay based on having a share and having that salary bit dual.

Kousha Navidar: In that case, it makes me wonder about a thing that you actually mentioned at the very opening of the segment, which was when you're a nanny, you are an employee and payment is a really important element here. What does the process look like whether you are a part of one family and your nannying or you're a nanny share? How should families charge and finance babysitting? What does it look? What's the process like to actually get on payroll?

Sarah Davis: We always give our families information on a payroll service but we don't do that. However, legally, all nannies are W-2. That means that you're on the books, they're your employee. Even with a nanny share, each family would do that separately based on their families. With all of that, all the benefits are also necessary.

That's one big topic too, is nannies need to get all the benefits that other employees get. The two weeks paid vacation, sick time, holidays off, just the standards like everybody else does. I think once in a while families don't realize, "Oh, we're going out of town for a couple of weeks this summer and we're just not going to pay our nanny for that." It's like, "No. You have to pay your nanny for that because that person will find a job somewhere else, and that's not good for you either." Having all that setup, talking about them being a W-2, all the benefits is 100% necessary when having a nanny.

Kousha Navidar: Listeners, if you're just joining us, we're talking to Sarah Davis. She's founder of Olive You Nanny, a nannying service that connects nannies with families. We're taking your calls and questions right now, or your experiences too about being a nanny, being a babysitter, what parts you loved, what parts of the childcare employment process you wish could be improved, questions for Sarah. Give us a call, send us a text. We're at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC.

Sarah, we have a caller here who unfortunately had to get off the phone because they're at work, but it harkens back to a quick thing that you mentioned when you said the nanny she or he actually. You said she or he and this is about that. Eddie in Livingston, New Jersey says, why do people not take men for nannies? Why does it always have to be a woman? I tried, but I wouldn't get a single offer, even with four kids, et cetera. What's your experience here with the gender layout and obstacles?

Sarah Davis: Oh, Eddie I'm sorry to hear that. I love when men come to me. I think it's so great. I think it's just one of those things where families will think and people think women are more nurturing, women have more experience, women have that natural ability to take care of a child. I find that, typically, women are really awesome with newborns. We're just nurturing in that way, calling in that way and we're born to be that way.

When I have a man come to me who has experience and wants to do nannying, I think that men are amazing, and when the kiddos are a little bit older, where they might be a good fatherly figure, so to speak, because maybe the dad is gone, or travels all the time, is not around. Or maybe the kids are really into sports, or art, or music or whatever it might be, and a man in that role is great because they don't have someone around to be in that role for them.

I find that when I work with families and they're looking for maybe an after school person, or somebody who's really active and is here and there and in sports and activities and all that stuff, I think hiring a man is great for that because I think that they can just jump in and go with the flow.

Kousha Navidar: Let's hear from Jack in West Orange, New Jersey. Hey Jack, welcome to the show.

Jack: Hey, how you doing?

Kousha Navidar: Good. Thanks. It sounds like you've got a story

Jack: Yes. It's a blessed experience I had years back. Some friends of mine were stuck because their nanny had to leave and was unable to get back in. I had just left my job and I said, "Right now I'm not doing anything. If I can help you out, I'll fill in for this week." It went really well and they said, "This is good. Did you find any work?" I said, "No, no." They said, "Let's keep this going." We had an agreement.

They paid me by the hour, which turned out to be-- when was this? This was before 2000. They gave me $400 a week back then. It was two kids. A two-and-a-half-year-old and a five-and-a-half. They were a handful but that was a blessing. I finally enjoyed spending the day with them and it worked out so well. They said, "Would you consider staying on and keeping this as your full-time job?" I never expected it but I said, "Yes, why not?" It was wonderful. Again, these were friends of mine. I didn't work through an agency, so I already knew mom and dad.

Kousha Navidar: How long did it go on for Jack?

Jack: Two and a half years. Then mom got pregnant so a newborn came into the picture.

Kousha Navidar: Sarah, you were going to say something?

Sarah Davis: I just said, that's great. I just love that story, and I also love that Jack was with them for so long. I'm interested to hear about this newborn and where that took you.

Kousha Navidar: Jack, did you continue on once the newborn came into the picture?

Jack: I did.

Kousha Navidar: That's wonderful.

Jack: These people were so wonderful to me. We had a friendship as I said before the babysitting situation came along. I thought they would be more apprehensive, but I have had experience with newborns. I changed diapers in family and friends and stuff like that. I met little Theo when he was nine hours old.

Kousha Navidar: Oh, Jack. Thank you so much for sharing that. We got to move on just for time, but it was so wonderful getting to hear your experience and so well timed too while we were talking about gender. Sarah, a thing that I wanted to pull out of Jack's offering here is that he knew the family ahead of time. This question is for anyone that's interested in starting as a nanny, and I guess, in some extent, as a babysitter, but how do you start? Because you yourself said, if somebody comes to me with good experience, that is the most important piece. How do you get that experience? Where do you go?

Sarah Davis: That's a great question. I have nannies often that come to me that are in their early 20s who have never been a full-time nanny, but looking for a full-time nanny job. For most agencies, that's not enough experience because we work with really experienced, qualified people, but I always going to give them advice on that.

I always say you do need to start on messaging boards or Facebook, or family friends, or at least start as a full-time summer nanny, because then at least you get some of that full-time experience. Then also what I find is, when families have more than one kiddo and they have more kids a family has, the more laid back they are because they're just free fall when you have a lot of kids. I find that families who have more kids are okay with less experience sometimes because they're like, "You seem amazing. Just jump on in and we'll show you around."

Then it always is up all about that connection too. If you meet somebody who doesn't have that much of experience, but you're talking to them and you just really connect with them, and it just feels right, it's a gut feeling, then you'll know that's a good fit for your family. Usually, I just say friends and family message boards, things like that to just get some of that experience first.

Kousha Navidar: I'm looking at the clock, we're wrapping up here. Before we go, any final pieces of advice, or anything that you want to impart to folks who are listening?

Sarah Davis: Yes. One thing I would say to families out there and nannies too, and hopefully, I've always considered myself a big nanny advocate. One piece of advice for families would be to just have gratitude towards your nanny because they work really hard, and they're with your kids all day and they're shaping their kiddos minds. That's super important. To have that gratitude towards your nanny, and the thank yous, I think that's just super important.

Kousha Navidar: Gratitude, family relationship, covered a lot. We were with Sarah Davis, founder of Olive You Nanny, a nannying service that connects nannies with families. We also heard from you listeners about your experiences. I just got to say, thanks so much for reaching out for sharing your story. Sarah, thank you as well.

Sarah Davis: Thank you so much.

 

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