Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. It's time for Cats: The Jellicle Ball.

[MUSIC - Cakes Da Killa x Proper Villains: Don Dada]

The classical musical Cats is back in town with fierce fashion, house music, and a whole lot of seshing. It's called Cats: The Jellicle Ball, and this revival retains most of the original storyline. You might be familiar, a group of feline friends and foes, The Jellicle Cats come together at The Jellicle Ball to decide which one of them will be reborn into a new life. In this version, The Jellicle Cats don't wear cat costumes and tails. They don opulent gowns and shiny stilettos.

Instead of a regular stage, the theater is a long runway, 57 feet where the Jellicle Cats strut, vogue, and dance battle in front of a panel of judges, which sometimes includes celebrity judges like Ariana DeBose, but always featured the legendary André De Shields in the role of Old Deuteronomy. What Results is an immersive show that celebrates the journey of The Jellicle Cats and the fabulosity of ballroom culture. Let's just say the crowd gets in on it. Cats: The Jellicle Ball is at the Perelman Art Center, running through August 11th, and with us now is one of the creatives behind the show, choreographer, Omari Wiles. Hi, Omari.

Omari Wiles: Hello.

Alison Stewart: Hello.

Omari Wiles: Good afternoon.

Alison Stewart: Dramaturg and gender consultant Josephine Kearns. Do you prefer Josephine or Josie or what?

Josephine Kearns: You can call me Josie. Thanks for asking. Hello.

Alison Stewart: Hi. Omari, The Jellicle Ball has a word ball in it, but aside from wordplay, what did you notice this about the similarities between the world of Cats and ballroom?

Omari Wiles: It was their fight. It was their diversity and their versatility. Them trying to strive for greatness, for acceptance to see their self-worth using their talents, using their skills. Using the many things that they bring about themselves and that they can express about themselves. That connection between the original story Cats, and what we do in ballroom and this story of Jellicle Cats it just connected so well.

Alison Stewart: Josie, as a dramaturg, you serve as the literary advisor from the original, which was adapted by Andrew Lloyd Webber. Character's names are the same. The is largely intact. What did conversations about what to keep and what to take look like?

Josephine Kearns: We knew from the outset that we wanted to keep all of the lyrics in the show. Therefore all of the characters, all of the-- you say the storyline is the same. That's somewhat true. We changed some bits of it. When we started talking about what to change, it was more about like how do we fit this into a ballroom world. A lot of the pieces were really straightforward.

Most of the show is this parade of characters, and those became the ballroom categories. All of the other little pieces around it, we had to say, "Okay, this is going to be this, this is going to be this, this is who Grizabella is going to be in this setting, as opposed to in the original Cats. That was where all of the storytelling for us really took place.

Alison Stewart: Josie, what conversations did you have with Andrew Lloyd Webber and his company?

Josephine Kearns: At the beginning, none. At the beginning, we wanted to have a developed concept that we could present to them as a proposal. For a lot of months, I don't remember how long Omari and Bill Rauch, one of the directors and I were just in weekly Zoom meetings, piecing it all together. We made a pitch deck and got together and made a sample video of what the dance might look like for the show.

Sent those off and sort of said like, "Hey, here's this idea. What would you think about letting us do it?" We were fortunate that because Bill is the artistic director at the pack that we had a venue for it ready for us. That helped too. It was just a lot of back and forth over the span of four years.

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Josephine Kearns: I think.

Omari Wiles: Oh, yes.

Josephine Kearns: It was a long time. We started it in lockdown.

Alison Stewart: Wow. What keeps you going Omari for four years?

Omari Wiles: What kept me going honestly, was the story, the opportunity that this would also open for many people within the ballroom community to be inspired, to be able to see themselves on a stage like this. That, to me, was the biggest, I think, give back that I wanted to do. Being in ballroom since 2004 ballroom stories have been told left, right, up and down in different ways. A lot of the times we don't see those stories told by the people in ballroom.

Me being a musical theater lover and a ballroom lover, I wanted to make sure that this show had to be seen. It had to have a voice that both worlds had to have a voice because there's so much that they have in common as artists, as creatives. That's what kept me going. It was the artistry. It was us being innovative and re-imagining this classic. That goal, that journey, that excitement, that is what ultimately was like, we have to do this, and no matter what it's going to get done. That's the Jellicle choice.

Alison Stewart: We're talking about Cats: The Jellicle Ball playing at the Perelman Performing Art Center through August 11th. My guests are Omari Wiles, the choreographer, and Josie Kearns, who's a dramaturg and the gender consultant. Josie, I'm going to ask you, first of all, would you explain what the title gender consultant means?

Josephine Kearns: Sure. It means slightly different things on different productions. I do gender consulting outside of theater as well, which usually means working with organizations to do inclusivity trainings and just like figure out how to structure their organization more inclusively. I do the same thing essentially on theatrical productions where we had a lot of trans cast members in this show. We had a lot of non-binary cast members in this show. As gender consultant my role is twofold.

One is I want to make sure that we're creating as comfortable and safe of a place for those people as we possibly can. Making sure that everybody else in the room has the education that they need to make that be the case. Then on the other side, looking at how we present gender identity to the audience. One of the big things on this show that we always strove for from the beginning was authenticity.

The original Cats has a lot of actors donning costumes that age them, that enlarged them, things like that. For us, we said like, "No, we want this to be authentic." That meant bringing in a ton of people from ballroom, but it also meant bringing in a ton of trans and non-binary folks from the scene because they're a huge part of what ballroom is. Making sure that we were telling that story in a way that communicated the reality of it while also not playing into stereotypes or anything like that.

Alison Stewart: Josie, did the roles converge for you? Gender consultant does it fit into the dramaturg role or are they separate?

Josephine Kearns: It's a little of both. There are definitely shows on which I am one and not the other, depending on the show. In this case, I joke sometimes that I can't totally turn the gender consultant off. When I am doing dramaturgy, something will come up pertaining to gender, and that's what I end up thinking and talking about. The dramaturgy was really about the development of the story, and I think gender was such a huge part of that, that they were just intrinsically tied.

Alison Stewart: Omari, let's talk about choreography. It's high-octane dancing. There's voguing, there's dipping. All elements from New York's ballroom dance culture. You teach ballroom dance, you teach voguing as well. How did your background help you with your cast, especially some of the folks who maybe were new to voguing and runway?

Omari Wiles: Well, I'm originally from Senegal, West Africa. I've worked with a lot of African dance companies and we put on a lot of repertoires that are singing, dancing, acting, that's all involved. This is pretty much my first American musical or the production that got to work on. What was important was that we not just showcase vogue, but that we showcase dance styles that was birthed within the queer clubs nightlife.

That felt natural to how we express ourselves within the community, how we see each other show up with each other at the clubs. Not just the ball. It also needed to have a sense of competition and that there is a energy of challenging each performer and each performer challenging each other within the choreography as well. Taking Voguing and the different forms of voguing, there's old way, there's new way.

There's vogue femme which are all under the umbrella of vogue. We wanted to make sure because of the categories that each act is representing in this show not every category is dense. Some categories is just about the way that you walked, and owned your body and owned your confidence, and commanded the space. That was also a lot of one-on-one work with the actors.

Making sure that they felt comfortable and that they felt authentic in representing the space and how they moved around the stage, and how they felt like a competitor as well, a ballroom competitor. Then when we saw a lot of the high-energy dancing, we took a lot of influence from street jazz, which it's exactly what it sounds like. It's a lot more jazzy movement, but it has this feminine Blair that really connects to ballroom as well too, and connects to the queer community.

Within the vogue femme style we had to throughout the process and rehearsals cross train. We had to cross train those who were musical theater background into learning how to move their bodies and connect to this body of language of voguing. Then we had to do the same thing with the ballroom actors as well, too. Getting them to move in a more musical theater way and be more expressive.

The marriage was that both musical theater and ballroom we have to act, you have to be theatrical. That was the beautiful blend and marriage that came from blending musical theater, dance, and vogue styles as well, super ballroom styles. Also just blending the whole queerness of movement in the celebrate celebratory vibes in body language that exist in both musical theater and in ballroom.

Alison Stewart: We're discussing Cats: The Jellicle Ball playing at the Perelman Performing Art Center through August 11th. My guest or choreographer, Omari Wiles, as well as Josie Kearn dramaturg and gender consultant. Josie, what did you find rewarding about working with an existing text?

Josephine Kearns: Adapting existing texts is, I think, my favorite thing to do when making theater. I think a lot of the reason for that for me is that in the history of musical theater, it has tended to be only one group of people's stories being told over and over and over again. Those stories have left out all sorts of different marginalized groups of people based on race, based on gender identity, based on religion, disability, any number of things.

What I enjoy most about redoing these older shows is to sort of say, "Hey, Cats came out in 1981. We were there then too. Sort of reclaiming our place in society at the time and in the stories that are told. To take this classic text and put it in the bodies of people on stage who would not traditionally have been playing those roles on stage I think is really powerful.

Alison Stewart: Omari, ballroom has been a space where queer folks from all identities and gender expressions feel safe and often thrive. How did you want to bring that ethos to the show?

Omari Wiles: We wanted to make sure that, again, with every category being different in every category, calling for different personalities, different characters, different body types, different gender identities. It was really important for us to make sure that casting felt authentic as well, too, to the characters. In the beginning, we sat down and we really looked at each character's story within the original Cats. We really placed them in the world of ballroom in which category specifically felt right.

Rum Tum Tugger in the original being a flirt. It felt right for them to then, in this version be a pretty boy realness, which is a category where-- it's in realness category and you're expressing yourself authentically of how you live your life outside of the ball, how you walk through the streets, how people see you through society every day, and how you claim that identity at the same time. Having to learn how to grow and be yourself in both worlds, in the real world and in ballroom, how to navigate that.

It was really beautiful to be able to see the cast embody these stories amongst their own stories. A lot of the cast being queer, coming from the queer community, we had to explain to them, you already have a connection to ballroom. Because of just the community that we all come from, that we all share the stories, the experiences. The struggles that we've shared throughout history that this community has shared throughout history. Don't feel that you are not a part of one or the other.

Take parts of your life that exist. Take parts of your trauma, your struggle, and put that into the characters because they also have through history existed in these same ways. Have experienced these same ups and downs in our lives. It was really beautiful to see that connection and to get the cast to really authentically tap into that. That's what drives the competition world. That is what drives the ballroom in this show. It's that, again, everyone is trying to be the Jellicle choice.

Just like in ballroom, everyone's trying to be legendary. Everyone's trying to become an icon. It is to see yourself worthy. That is what excites us. That is what excites the crowd. That is what the audience is looking at. They're like, "I understand this. This makes sense. I get this, this is why they're fighting for Old Deuteronomy's approval for it." It is to walk out through the Heaviside Layer doors and really step into their truth into society with the encouragement, the approval, the, "You got this," of their community.

Alison Stewart: Josie, I understand that Andrew Lloyd Webber came to watch a performance last week.

Josephine Kearns: He did.

Alison Stewart: Tell us about that.

Josephine Kearns: [laughter] I wasn't there that night and I haven't spoken to him personally, but I know Bill, our director has. He came back and said he loved the show. We've mostly been working with his team over the course of time. He came back and said he loved the show. He had a couple of things that he was like, "Oh, in the song Bustopher Jones, we talk about all of these clubs in London. What if we inputted the names of some gay clubs?" Things like that. Overall was just super effusive and positive. It was really lovely.

Alison Stewart: Omari, I've got one quick question. I've got a bit a minute for you. Where do you see the future of ballroom, especially since it's getting more attention in mainstream recognition?

Omari Wiles: I see ballroom owning their own spaces.

Alison Stewart: Nice.

Omari Wiles: Owning their own. Right now, New York City, all over the world, it is hard to have venues that we have access to. With this show with the hype that ballroom has been given over these past couple of years, I'm really hoping that ballroom can then be able to fund itself to find access to places that they belong. The respect level is there.

Alison Stewart: I'm going to dive right in and make sure people know where it is. It is Cats: The Jellicle Ball playing at the Perelman Performing Arts Center through August 11th. My guests have been choreographer, Omari Wiles and Josie Kearn, the dramaturg and the gender consultant. Thank you both for your time today.

Josephine Kearns: Thank you so much.

Omari Wiles: Thank you.

[END OF AUDIO]

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