[music]

Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar. Thanks for listening. Let's keep things going with a new album from Alan Braufman. Here it is.

[MUSIC - Alan Braufman: Chasing Melody]

Kousha Navidar: That is Chasing Melody, the first composition on Alan Braufman's new album, Infinite Love Infinite Tears. Braufman is a Brooklyn-born alto sax player, a flutist, and a composer. He was a key member of the free jazz scene of 1970s downtown Manhattan. In fact, he lived only a few blocks from where we're broadcasting right now. During that time, Braufman released his debut album, Valley of Search, but that would turn out to be his only album release for almost 50 years. Now, Braufman didn't just disappear. He toured with acts like Carla Bley and The Psychedelic Furs, but over the years, Valley of Search became a cult classic album for fans of Braufman, the kind of rare record you could brag about owning to other jazz fans if you could get your hands on it.

As a result of the popularity of Valley of Search, and thanks to efforts from his nephew Nabil Ayers, Braufman re-released his album in 2018, and it was released to critical acclaim. He's since put out more music, including the album The Fire Still Burns, and now this new record, Infinite Love Infinite Tears. The album is out now, and Braufman is with me in studio right across this table for a listening party. Alan, welcome to WNYC.

Alan Braufman: Thanks for having me.

Kousha Navidar: If you like what you hear, Alan Braufman is playing a show tomorrow at National Sawdust in Brooklyn. It starts at 6:30. Alan, let's dive into the album and that first song that we just heard, Chasing Melody. We heard the first song of the album in the intro. As a jazz musician, what does the term 'chasing melody' mean to you?

Alan Braufman: No, actually it's Chasing a Melody, the full title of the tune. Basically, it's not really a jazz term. That's just what I called it. I have, and I think most musicians do, music going on in their head pretty much all waking hours. Sometimes I'll be talking to somebody. I'll try to make it so this doesn't happen while I'm talking to you here [chuckles], but I'll be talking to somebody, and all of a sudden I hear a melody in my head. I start following the melody and I'm not listening to what they're saying and all of a sudden I realize, "Oh, what was it you're saying?" I call that chasing a melody. This happened when I wrote that tune with somebody, so I figured it was a good name for the song.

Kousha Navidar: Do you have a voice recorder or do you have something to keep track of the melodies when they come to you?

Alan Braufman: My memory. [laughs]

Kousha Navidar: Your memory?

Alan Braufman: Yes. I basically feel that if it doesn't come back to me, who cares? It doesn't matter, but the ones that I like usually do.

Kousha Navidar: Is that how you know when you found a melody that you were looking for? Is it if it just sticks with you?

Alan Braufman: Basically, that's how my best things get written. I can write also the traditional way, sit down on the piano, but my music is unusual for free jazz because it's melodic. It's not a criticism of other free jazz that it's not melodic. It's not the concept of it, but mine is I think because basically, I chase the melodies in my head. If I can sing them, other people can sing them.

Kousha Navidar: How do you go about revising or building on the melody? Is it a very independent thing that you go about doing or do you have to have collaborators come in at a certain point?

Alan Braufman: Oh, no, I never use collaborators. Sometimes it's elusive. Like right now, since I've done the album, I've got a bunch of little ideas, but I haven't been able to connect them with anything to make full tunes out of it. I just have to wait. If I wait too long, I'll sit down on the piano and maybe force it but usually, it comes out better when I don't have to do that.

Kousha Navidar: Yes. It's interesting that your main pieces that you use, your main instruments here, the sax and the flute, the piano seems to play a very important part in the actual creation of the melody, it sounds like.

Alan Braufman: For most people, they use the piano and they're right. I only do that when I'm cornered and I can't figure a way out. [chuckles]

Kousha Navidar: The album is called Infinite Love Infinite Tears. When did that phrase first come to you and what does it represent about the album?

Alan Braufman: I wrote the song. I have more trouble naming songs than writing them. I wrote the song, which eventually became the title track, the album, Infinite Love Infinite Tears. The melody was bittersweet. It was very sweet but had this element of sadness in it to me. I was thinking that the combination of love and tears, they do seem to be very-- If you don't have love, you won't have grief. Love and grief are connected, and it's not a fair trade because you can have grief without love. You're not having the love without the grief that's coming along for the ride.

Kousha Navidar: Let's listen to a little bit of it. This is the title track of the album, Infinite Love Infinite Tears.

[MUSIC - Alan Braufman: Infinite Love Infinite Tears]

Kousha Navidar: That was Infinite Love Infinite Tears. It's the title track from the album by the same name. We're here with Alan Braufman, the alto sax player, the flutist, the composer. I could totally hear the bittersweet element that you were talking about and they're almost like two heads of the same coin.

Alan Braufman: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: You play alto sax and the flute, which came first for you?

Alan Braufman: Clarinet came first when I was 8. When I was 13, I added the saxophone and 15, flute.

Kousha Navidar: How would you describe your relationship with these different instruments? Is the creative process for working on a tune with these instruments different for you? Do you find that different elements of your playing come out with different instruments?

Alan Braufman: When I write the tune I haven't chosen yet, which instrument I'm going to do it on most likely it's going to be saxophone because that's my main one, but after I listen to the tune, sometimes I say, "Well, that'd be good for flute." On this particular version that we did on the album Infinite Love Infinite Tears, I played the melody along with the tenor saxophonist James Brandon Lewis, on alto saxophone and then did the solo on flute.

Kousha Navidar: I imagine that a lot of this is through intuition and just feeling it, but let's take the flute, for instance. Is there a theme with what you find comes into your head or about the melody when you're like, "Oh, this would sound good on the flute?" Can you point to that or is that just effervescent?

Alan Braufman: I think the stuff I meet personally that I save the flute for is the more pretty stuff that the saxophone, like not messing around, go for the power, but the flute is a little bit more finesse.

Kousha Navidar: Yes. You've played music for so long. Does it become difficult to find new sounds or movements from your instrument? Do you find yourself trying to create in new ways as time goes on?

Alan Braufman: I've never stopped practicing and I still practice a lot every day. I hate to miss a day. Yes, you do find new sounds. I think it's inevitable that you improve your sound, you find a way to-- My particular tone on saxophone that I like to go for was influenced by the tenor saxophonist Gato Barbieri, is very clear sound that's very, I think, ice water sort of. I've gone for that and that's been a lifelong pursuit to just try to get the sound you want. I'm still getting closer [laughs].

Kousha Navidar: Does your practice change over time? Do you practice now differently than you used to?

Alan Braufman: Not necessarily. I'm always adding new things and everything, but I think I'm not practicing the same thing I practiced when I was 20, I guess, but I've never really thought about that, [crosstalk] it evolves.

Kousha Navidar: Yes, it's interesting to think about. Before, you might've been working scales way back in the day. You're still working the scales right now or listening, and transcribing, and everything. I want to talk about the composition, Edge of Time, from the new album now. You've said that it's inspired by a musical hum that's often in your head. What is that hum?

Alan Braufman: In the liner notes, I think that's what Clifford Allen, who wrote them, just the words he used for-- My description to him was I just got music going in my head. Like I said earlier in an interview, pretty much my waking hours. I think that most musicians, like I said, I haven't asked them, but I'm assuming I'm not the only one [chuckles] that has that. Well, it's always original stuff. I don't hum other people's tunes. Not because I have anything against doing that, but it's just usually not in my head.

The musical hum is just a constant soundtrack that's going on. Most of the stuff is very discardable. There's some I like and I said I would never present it to other people. Once in a while you get something that you-- That particular song, Edge of Time, it's just a six-bar phrase, it got stuck in my head I don't know how. It's three bars of 7/4 and three bars of 3. It was interesting working that into a whole coherent piece from beginning to end, and where it was going to go with solos, and everything. It was just a six-bar melody.

Kousha Navidar: Do you remember what that kernel was? What those eight bars were that really stuck in your head, that hum?

Alan Braufman: Yes, that's the six bars. It's the exact-

Kousha Navidar: That six bar. Sorry.

Alan Braufman: -six bars that you'll hear in the melody. That was going around my head for a few years figuring when am I going to do this? I'd like to do something with it. Then finally, when we did this album, I found a way for it.

Kousha Navidar: Well, let's listen to a little bit of it. Here is Edge of Time.

[MUSIC - Alan Braufman: Edge of Time]

Kousha Navidar: That was Edge of Time. Was it [hums] in your head for years?

Alan Braufman: Yes, it was [laughs].

Kousha Navidar: We also hear the Vibraphone on that track, as well as throughout the entire album that's played by--

Alan Braufman: Patricia Brennan, yes. She's wonderful. Also on the album is Ken Filiano on Bass and Chad Taylor on drums. On two of the songs they have Michael Wimberly on percussion.

Kousha Navidar: Why did you want Vibraphones on this record? Was that the first time you worked with them?

Alan Braufman: It is. That's interesting. First time I met Patricia was about a year and a half ago. We played opposite each other at a festival in Finland, the We Jazz Festival. We were hanging out and talking, and I asked her at the time, "I've got this album I'm thinking of doing. Are you into it?," because I thought [unintelligible 00:14:14] would be great. She was into it, and we eventually did it.

Kousha Navidar: I know you were born in Brooklyn but you've lived in Utah since the '90s, and we'll get to that soon, but am I right that the concept for this album first came when you were walking through Bed-Stuy?

Alan Braufman: Not for the album. It's for one song. It's the song that's called Brooklyn. I had gone to see my Friends play last summer, so just about a year ago, at a block party in Bed-Stuy. I was staying in Clinton Hills. It was about maybe a mile and a half and [unintelligible 00:14:54] instead of taking the train I'd walk. After the music-- it was beautiful music. [unintelligible 00:14:59] Abdullah, his band, trumpet player was [unintelligible 00:15:03] with Ras Moshe. They had beautiful music, and nice Summer night I'm walking home, and talking about the soundtrack that's going on in your head, I just started humming to myself, and that was the tune, Brooklyn. That was finished by the time I reached home. I said, "Well, that tune's done." [laughs]

Kousha Navidar: How long was that walk?

Alan Braufman: About half hour, probably.

Kousha Navidar: Half hour, so the whole song in half an hour. That's wild. You were born in Brooklyn, but later grew up in Long Island. Where exactly in both places?

Alan Braufman: In Wantagh. Wantagh, Long Island near Jones Beach.

Kousha Navidar: Okay, yes, yes. Absolutely. Where in Brooklyn were you born?

Alan Braufman: Crown Heights.

Kousha Navidar: How does it feel to walk around Brooklyn now when you remember what it was like when you were a kid?

Alan Braufman: Well, I don't know, I don't remember it that well from when I was a kid, but I remember the things that stick in my memory because I moved out when I was pretty young, is like, my dad takes me Ebbets Field, you know that cannot happen anymore, to see the Brooklyn Dodgers. It's changed so many times since then. It's not just one change. It's funny, when I'm in town, I stay with my family in Brooklyn. I can be here for several days and don't even come to Manhattan anymore.

Kousha Navidar: Well, let's listen to a little bit of this song, Brooklyn, on this album. Let's listen to it right now.

[MUSIC - Alan Braufman: Brooklyn]

Kousha Navidar: That was Brooklyn from the album, Infinite Love Infinite Tears from Alan Braufman, who we're joined by right now, the alto sax player, the flutist, the composer. I want to talk a little bit about Nabil, who was really important to the creation of this album. He's the son of legendary musician Ron Ayers--

Alan Braufman: Roy Ayers.

Kousha Navidar: Roy Ayers, thank you. He's also your nephew and owns his own record label. When he came to you saying that he wanted to put out your records after so many years of no published projects, what was your initial reaction?

Alan Braufman: I was saying like, "Why would he want to do that?" He informed me that there was a cult following for the album. Original copies, well, at that time the only copies were original because they hadn't been reprinted, but they're selling on eBay for over $400 when you [unintelligible 00:18:15]. I was really surprised, so I said, "Yes. If you want to put it out again, go ahead." [laughs]

Kousha Navidar: How involved is he in the actual music that you record, or is it all behind the scenes stuff?

Alan Braufman: He's involved in every way other than he gives me complete creative control, which is like the perfect situation. He'll get all the business happening and find the studios that we record at, put it out in his label, et cetera, but he gives me the 100% creative control. I cannot ask for a better situation.

Kousha Navidar: 50 years or so later on from your debut album, here you are once again putting out recorded music and gaining a following. How does that feel for you? What does it feel like to be putting out music again?

Alan Braufman: It feels good.

Kousha Navidar: Well, can we expect more music in the future from you? How does it look? What are you thinking about now as the next phase of your career?

Alan Braufman: I hope so. Certainly would like to keep the albums coming. I guess, I need to organize my little snippets of melodies that I've gotten into more coherent pieces to do the next album, but the germ of it is there.

Kousha Navidar: I know another important collaborator is the pianist, Cooper-Moore, who you've played with since the '60s. He'll be playing a set tomorrow at your National Sawdust gig. If somebody isn't familiar with Cooper-Moore, what do you admire about his music?

Alan Braufman: The power of his piano. He was big influence to me. We played over 50 years ago in Boston when I was going to Berkeley, and Cooper-Moore, he was moving back to New York City at the same time I was and David S. Ware was up there, we were playing together. We all came down, Cooper-Moore found that 51 Canal Street, which is a few blocks from where we are right now. We started out as a music building and in the last scene, we had our own concert. This is in the early '70s. He's been a collaborator and a mentor and inspiration for me for over 50 years.

Kousha Navidar: Why do you think you two work together so well?

Alan Braufman: I don't analyze that. We just do.

[laughter]

Kousha Navidar: It's just intuitive. It's like the way that the melodies, they just come. If it's there, it's there. You're playing National Sawdust tomorrow, so if someone is interested or already has tickets, what kind of energy can they look forward to experiencing in an Alan Braufman's show?

Alan Braufman: I would like to think that we'll have the intensity of a lot of free jazz, but we'll also have the melody that will be melodies upbeat, hummable, singable, you might remember, and uplifting.

Kousha Navidar: I've been talking with Alan Braufman who's the alto saxophonist, the flutist, and the composer. His new album is called Infinite Love Infinite Tears. Alan is playing at National Sawdust in Brooklyn tomorrow beginning at 6:30. Thanks for joining us, Alan.

Alan Braufman: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. Let's go out on one more song from the album. This is Liberation.

[MUSIC - Alan Braufman: Liberation]

 

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