Title: 100 Pieces of (Street) Art

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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you are here. Actor and Oscar nominee Monica Barbaro will be here in studio. She's playing Joan Baez in the new film A Complete Unknown. We'll speak with another Oscar nominee, Pierre Olivier Persin, the makeup artist behind the special effects in the film The Substance, and we'll talk to the author and the illustrator of a new book called What to Do When You Get Dumped.

That's the plan, so let's get this started with some really great art that you do not need to go into a museum to see.

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Alison Stewart: We are celebrating WNYC's centennial celebration with 100 Pieces of Art to See in the City. It is a completely unscientific yet heartfelt list of works you can experience in NYC. We've had experts on the show giving us their 10 takes from the New Yorker's Jackson Arn to ours Glenn Ligon. Today we have a list that requires you to put on your walking shoes. It's a list of outdoor art that you can see in New York. Joining us now from Brooklyn Street Art are co-founders Steve Harrington and Jaime Rojo. Nice to meet you.

Steve Harrington: Thank you so much. We're glad to be here.

Jaime Rojo: Thank you, Alison. Nice meeting you.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we want to know, do you have a favorite piece of street art or public art, what borough it's in, what do you like about it? We want to hear about it. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call in and join us on air or you can text to us at that number, 212-433-WNYC. While we wait for our phone lines to fill on up, Steve, tell us what Brooklyn Street Art is.

Steve Harrington: Brooklyn Street Art is an artist project. We're both artists. We both lived in New York since the '80s and we've both worked in many creative industries. We began Brooklyn Street Art as a way to help street artists who we knew how to promote themselves. We began that in 2008 and we've published more than 6,000 articles since then. We started in Brooklyn and it went around the world. We went to five continents to cover street art.

Alison Stewart: Jaime, what makes street art good art if there's such a thing?

Jaime Rojo: That it's accessible, that it's free, that it's unexpected, and in my opinion, one particular observation that I make when I am photographing a specific piece of street art is placement. I think placement is Key. If it's placed in the context within the community, within the neighborhood, within the culture, and also placed specifically on a wall, I think it makes the art pop, it makes the art interesting and it gets the attention of the public.

Alison Stewart: Steve, what were your criteria for the list that you gave us?

Steve Harrington: We wanted to make sure, hopefully, it's still up because the nature of street art and graffiti is that it gets destroyed by the weather or by your peers or by the owner of a building if it is against the law. We tried to choose things from a wide range. Really small things, hidden things, and enormous things.

Alison Stewart: Let's go into your list. You have the Big Apple Invader at 322 West 14th Street. I've seen this a million times. It's a sort of alien or this Space Invader icon climbing up the wall. When did this go up?

Jaime Rojo: 2015.

Alison Stewart: 2015. Who's the artist?

Jaime Rojo: Invader. He's a French street artist and he's known for his pixelated tile-based mosaics that are inspired by the 8-bit video games. He had this project in Paris where he wanted to do 1,000 pieces.

Alison Stewart: Oh, wow.

Jaime Rojo: He did it. He did it in 2011. There are other pieces by him around the city, but we like this piece because he's giving homage to New York City with the Big Apple.

Steve Harrington: Milton Glazier. It seems like a meta version of I Love New York. It's Invader Loves the Big Apple.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting because at first you don't really notice that and you wonder when you look up there, you're like, "Wait, wait, that's a piece of art," as you're walking down 14th Street. You said 2015?

Jaime Rojo: Yes

Alison Stewart: This is a dumb question. I know it's a little bit of a--

Jaime Rojo: Nothing's dumb.

Steve Harrington: There are no dumb questions.

Jaime Rojo: There is no dumb questions.

Alison Stewart: Does it have anything to do with the Apple Store?

Jaime Rojo: No.

Steve Harrington: I doubt it.

Alison Stewart: Just wondered.

Steve Harrington: I very much doubt it.

Alison Stewart: It's right on the end of that street.

Jaime Rojo: No, it doesn't, but I want to add a little backstory about this artist. In 2012, he wanted to send one of his aliens, he called some of his characters, on a weather balloon into space.

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Jaime Rojo: He did make a movie about it called Art for Space. He launched it and, I don't know, maybe crashed, but he wanted to do that.

Alison Stewart: Let's take some calls. Let's talk to Peter in Jersey City. Hi, Peter, you are on the air.

Peter: Hi. I love the tiny sculptures by-- I think his name is Ottendorfer, which I first saw in the 8th Avenue 14th Street subway station, the A-C-E-L. Then I found his chess game at the north end of Battery Park. Then there's one solitary figure outside the public school on Chambers Street across from Borough of Manhattan Community College, and there are probably more elsewhere. They're tiny whimsical figures interacting. There's a whole civilization in the subway station.

Alison Stewart: Yeah, that's Tom.

Steve Harrington: Tom Otterness. Yes. Those were all legal, so they were commissioned pieces. He is a controversial figure if one would-

Alison Stewart: Thank you for saying that.

Steve Harrington: -like to do some Googling. Unfortunately for him, I think he may have damaged his own reputation, but the art is made of brass. I think it's going to stay for a long time.

Alison Stewart: This text says, "The Five Continents at the Customs House at Bowling Green by Daniel Chester French. I've been to his workshops in Pittsfield, Massachusetts." Thanks for calling in. Let's talk to TJ who's calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, TJ. You're on the air.

TJ: Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

Steve Harrington: Hi, T.J.

TJ: My favorite newly discovered pieces are the Nick Cave mosaics. I love mosaic in general, but the Nick Cave mosaics on the 42nd Street corridor between, I think it's the ACE and the F trains. I discovered them recently because I was coming back from a very disappointing art show, happened to be walking down the corridor, and was blown away by how beautiful, how much energy and life they had in them.

Steve Harrington: The night wasn't lost, was it, TJ?

TJ: No, it was a great evening in the end. It turned out well.

Alison Stewart: Thanks so much for calling. Listeners, do you have a favorite piece of art or street art? Where is it? What do you like about it? We want to hear from you. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. We're celebrating WNYC Centennial Celebration with 100 Pieces of Art to See in New York City. Today we're looking at outdoor art. Our guests are the co-founders of Brooklyn Street Art, Steve Harrington and Jaime Rojo. Our next up is the bird mural at 16 East 2nd Street. What is the bird doing in this mural in the urban jungle?

Jaime Rojo: That bird is done by ROA. He is a Belgium artist and he was originally a graffiti writer. Now he's known for his large-scale monochromatic murals depicting animals often in states of decay or dissection. Do you want to talk about that, Steve?

Steve Harrington: Yes. What's interesting about this is that it's in a public space, but he didn't do it with permission, which we found out through some sleuthing because we thought it had been commissioned and it just appeared overnight. He tends to focus on animals that are in the margins of society. Again, he's traveled five continents. He picks the animals that people least like usually.

Jaime Rojo: Or they are in danger of extinction.

Steve Harrington: We're trying to figure out whether that is a starling or a crackle. If anyone in that neighborhood has an opinion because ROA didn't give any clues, and it's hard to identify what kind of bird he is. Maybe there's some ornithologists listening on NYC. I bet there are.

Alison Stewart: Oh, yes, there are. I wonder when you pass by this bird mural at 16 East 2nd Street, what is something that you notice about the bird?

Jaime Rojo: That it's perched on that wire that it's-

Steve Harrington: Razor wire.

Jaime Rojo: -razor wire. I know from a good source that originally they didn't like it, the people that tend to the garden because they want to keep the garden just purely as a garden. They don't want to keep it as an art garden, but the public likes it and they are keeping it. You see the bird and it's bird, but then you follow the contours of the bird and you see that it is on a razor wire. That is what caught my attention.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Jeffrey, who is calling in. Hi, Jeffrey, calling in from Brooklyn.

Jeffrey: Hi. Good afternoon. I'm basically calling about Bed Stuy Walls, Bedford Stuyvesant walls. Basically, it's street art and murals. Some call it graffiti, but it's really different murals. It's an entire avenue, maybe 20 to 25 different pieces that's full sizes of the buildings. They do it every year. They put the latest ones up in October. There are artists that come in from all over the world. Many New York City artists and so forth.

I just looked up the exact address. It's on Lexington in between Lewis Avenue and Stuyvesant Avenue, but it's called Bed Stuy Walls. Again, if you're just looking at the street art, there are many, many murals. It's one of the different sites you could find street art in Brooklyn and New York City, Manhattan as well.

Alison Stewart: Thanks so much for calling. Let's talk to Deborah. Hi, Deborah, thanks for calling All Of It. You're on the air.

Deborah: Wait, wait.

Alison Stewart: Wait, wait? [crosstalk]

Deborah: Hi. I'm Deborah. I've always loved The Cube on West Fourth Street and Lafayette downtown. I lived there for about 20 years, and I always bring my guests to see it because I tell them that in New York, it's such a large city, and it's hard to feel that you make an impact, but we can make an impact and change the face of New York right now, and we move the cube, physically turns around. About a year or two ago, it was under construction, and you couldn't move it. There was a fence around it, but it's back to normal now, and you can actually move the cube.

Steve Harrington: I think it's been fully refurbished. [crosstalk]

Alison Stewart: Yes, it has. Thank you so much for calling. Let's go back to your list. Dogs on a Wire by Skewville. Various locations, mostly in Bushwick. First of all, tell us who make up the duo Skewville.

Steve Harrington: Skewville are Ed and Drew. They are twin brothers from Woodside, and they have been throwing these dogs over wires since 1999. They screen print this image of a sneaker on wood and then cut it out into the shape of a sneaker, hook it together with wires, and throw it up over wires. They have done thousands of them. There are many in Brooklyn, Bushwick, Queensland, around the city if you're looking for them. They're very humorous and rebellious guys. They give a lot back to the street art community.

Alison Stewart: Are they there to symbolize what normal sneakers over a wire symbolize?

Steve Harrington: Absolutely. They're an echo of something that already is a normal sight in many neighborhoods in New York. There's a lot of debate, though, what the true meaning of them are, whether it's a tribute or whether it's just mischief.

Jaime Rojo: Or marking a territory.

Steve Harrington: Or marking territory.

Jaime Rojo: What's interesting about these pieces is that sometimes you see a singular pair, sometimes you see multiples, and sometimes you see them mixed with regular sneakers. It's something really fun to see around the city. If you go to Bushwick, where the Bushwick Collective is, you can see hundreds of them hanging for wires.

Steve Harrington: It's like a mixture of humor, nostalgia, and mischief altogether. When you see one or a set of their dogs, you always smile.

Alison Stewart: Hammer Boy, Banksy. This appeared on the Upper West Side. First of all, how do we know it's Banksy?

Steve Harrington: Good question.

Jaime Rojo: Good question. That was done in 2013 during his New York residency. It's the only lasting piece from that October, from 2013. He did multiple, multiple pieces. He did one piece a day, and that's the one that has been kept. It has been kept because the owners of-- Do you say Zabar's or Zabar's?

Steve Harrington: Zabar's.

Jaime Rojo: Zabar's or Zabar's? How do you say it? I never know how to say it.

Alison Stewart: Use it in a sentence.

Steve Harrington: The Zabar's store.

Alison Stewart: Oh, Zabar's.

Steve Harrington: Zabar's.

Alison Stewart: Zabar's. Zabar's. Yes.

Jaime Rojo: Zabar's.

Alison Stewart: Hi, Sandy. We know Sandy Zabar. Hi, Sandy.

Jaime Rojo: Oh, okay, great. Andy has been a keeper of the piece and he took ownership of it in the best way possible to preserve it for the public.

Alison Stewart: They're huge fans of art, Zabar's, by the way.

Steve Harrington: That would make sense.

Jaime Rojo: That's why it makes sense. Not only did they do that, they put a camera in front of it to make sure it doesn't get vandalized, they put a Plexiglas on top of it to make sure that it stays. A lot of pieces get stolen or they get painted over, but this piece has been there preserved by these people who love art, as you just said, but also love the fact that the public can enjoy it as well.

Steve Harrington: I love it because the boy is swinging a hammer. He's cleverly interacting with a piece of street furniture that already exists and created an opportunity for people to take selfies. A lot of people like to put their heads down on that and get their picture taken as if they're going to get bashed in the head.

Jaime Rojo: One of the genius of Banksy, if you are going to talk about the craftsmanship of the work, very often it's not that good because a lot of the times the pieces are put illegally in the middle of the night. That's not the focus of it. The focus of it is the way that he puts pieces and then he invites public to interact with them. It is the concept behind it.

Steve Harrington: Let's take another call. Tom is calling in from Manhattan. Hi Tom, you're on the air.

Tom: Hi. This is a great segment. I love wandering around the city and finding a new piece of public art I haven't seen. One of the latest came up about two years ago, just October 2023. It's the memorial for the Triangle Fire of 1911. It was dedicated in October 23. It's at the site of the fire which is now an NYU building on the corner of Greene in Washington Place in the Village. It's very interesting conceptual art. Lists the 146 people who died in that terrible fire at the Shirtwaist Factory fire.

The names of the victims is essentially projected through engravings cutouts onto a mirrored-- What do you call it? A thing around the bottom of the building with current contemporary quotes of the depiction of the fire. Like much of the other art you've described, it was contentious. Some people hate it. A lot of people love it, but it is something which, finally after over 100 years, recognizes and memorializes the victims of that fire which set off a great social movement in the United States, as many of your listeners already know.

One of the victims was my great-aunt Fanny. I'm always glad now to be able to see her name there and to take friends and family to look at this new memorial.

Alison Stewart: Thank you, Tom, for calling in and for sharing that personal story.

Jaime Rojo: Thank you very much.

Steve Harrington: I love memorial murals. They have such an important role to play in communities and feelings of connectedness in a neighborhood and in a city. Murals such as those add so much to your life because you become connected to your own history by reading the account.

Jaime Rojo: We have one of--I don't know. At least, maybe do you want to talk--

Alison Stewart: Yes, go for it.

Steve Harrington: It's the Yusuf Hawkins tribute mural. Yusuf Hawkins was a 16-year-old teen from East New York who went to Bensonhurst on August 23, 1989, to look at a used Pontiac with a couple of friends. Within two or three blocks of leaving the subway, he and his friends were surrounded by 10 to 20 primarily Italian American youth who actively harassed them and one of them put two bullets in his chest. Talk about lighting the city on fire. It really set off a chain reaction of events in the city.

Floyd Sapp created this mural originally in 1989. He was a Brooklyn-based artist and teacher of art and African American History at CW Post. In 2011, one of the current street artists, Spector from Canada refurbished it.

Jaime Rojo: Restored it.

Alison Stewart: It looks beautiful.

Jaime Rojo: He restored it and he restored it again in 2016 and he went back last year and did a new restoration. He keeps the portrait and he adds beautiful magnolia blossoms on the wall.

Alison Stewart: I want to tell people that's at Fulton and Verona Place in Bed Stuy. We are talking about great places to catch public art. My guests are Steve Harrington and Jaime Rojo the co-founders of the Brooklyn Street Art. We'll have more recommendations and we'll take more of your calls after a quick break. This is All Of It.

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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. In studio with me now, Steve Harrington and Jaime Rojo. They are co-founders of Brooklyn Street Art. We are taking a look at 10 pics that they've made of great street art. Doesn't mean that's it. There's tons of art out there.

Steve Harrington: There's so much.

Alison Stewart: Let's start with Love Me, Love Me Not. It's by a duo known as FAILE. Who are FAILE?

Steve Harrington: FAILE is a Brooklyn-based, now Queens-based duo who started as wheat past street artists with their own style of image-based screen print, collage, and stencils. Their style is like Lichtenstein, Warhol, Jacques Villegli, are all influences. They actually had a huge show at the Brooklyn Museum in 2014.

Alison Stewart: This giant mural is of a girl. It's in Transmitter Park. She's girl looking love me, love me not with the daisies. Does that have a political part of it?

Jaime Rojo: You might say it has a political, but it was done in 2016 and it was done for Climate Week. It has also a little frog next to the girl.

Alison Stewart: Oh, I didn't see the frog, but it's cute.

Jaime Rojo: There's a little frog and the girl had some socks.

Steve Harrington: Her socks have a pattern from Polish lace as a nod to Greenpoint having such a large immigrant population from Poland.

Alison Stewart: I love this one, Radiant Madonna. This is part history, part pop history. It's a Renaissance Madonna holding Keith Haring's Radiant Baby.

Jaime Rojo: Yes. It was done by Owen Dippie. He is from New Zealand. It was done in 2015.

Steve Harrington: It's Raphael's Madonna del Granduca.

Alison Stewart: Oh.

Jaime Rojo: Yes.

Steve Harrington: It's a copy of her, except she was 33 inches high. This is 33ft high.

Jaime Rojo: It's so big.

Steve Harrington: It's enormous.

Jaime Rojo: It's actually very easy to spot from the street.

Steve Harrington: Instead of holding the baby as she was in that painting, she has Haring's Radiant Baby. It's such an amazing hybrid. It causes people to stop and stare and just check their head like, "What am I seeing here?" He's a very talented, realistic painter, Owen Dippie from New Zealand.

Alison Stewart: That's at 362 Jefferson Ave in Bushwick. This one cracks me up because I saw this being made-

Jaime Rojo: Oh.

Alison Stewart: -at 140 West 14th Street. I was on my way to McBurney Y, and there was this guy on a lift. Then it kept going and it kept going. This is Rock on The Break of Dawn, Part 1 and 2.

Steve Harrington: On and on till the break of dawn.

Alison Stewart: On and on till the break of dawn. It's a pair of twins.

Steve Harrington: Yes.

Jaime Rojo: Yes, more twins.

Alison Stewart: Who are they? What's their image?

Steve Harrington: In Portuguese, the word for twins is OSGEMEOS and that's their name.

Jaime Rojo: The twins.

Alison Stewart: They're from Sao Paulo. They're twins, Octavio and Gustavo.

Jaime Rojo: They are Brazilian, and they are Ottavio and Gustavo Pandolfo. They create dreamlike narrative-rich street art characterized by their signature yellow skin characters.

Steve Harrington: It's usually a dreamlike scene.

Alison Stewart: These are so fun. They've got a hip-hop vibe to it. The chimneys are coming out of the top of the hat. It's really great.

Steve Harrington: They're free with their proportions of their characters, It is a tribute to New York City's 1980 hip-hop culture. It's a double mural. Two murals facing each other. It took them more than a month to complete that.

Alison Stewart: There's an abandoned lot in between them.

Steve Harrington: It is. I don't know how long that stays abandoned. I'm glad it does, but they have boomboxes, tracksuits, converse sneakers. They have a tribute to Rocksteady Crew, Frosty Freeze, James Brown-

Jaime Rojo: And Martha Cooper.

Steve Harrington: -and Martha Cooper. The cover of Subway Art is also on the guy's T-shirt with Dante, the King graffiti style master.

Alison Stewart: Let's take some calls. Lee is calling in from Tribeca. Hi, Lee.

Lee: Hi. How are you?

Alison Stewart: Doing okay.

Lee: I wanted to talk about a piece of art that's in the Chambers Street A train station at Chamber Street. It's a sound art piece. I'm a musician, so maybe I'm more partial to something that's audio rather than visual, but it's called Chambers Hum. I just looked it up. It's part of the MTA's program called Vacant Unit Activation Program. It's a multi-tone drone in an unused closet underneath one of the stairwells in the A train. It's just this really vibrant, droning sound.

I guess a few different composers are involved in creating it. The trains come and go, and when the trains are out of the station, you get to be surrounded by this just beautiful, humming, droning work there in the station. Every time I'm in that station, I stop and listen for a while because it's so beautiful.

Alison Stewart: Thank you so much. Let's see. Let's take some texts. "Take a ride to Fifth Avenue and 110th Street to see the sensational Duke Ellington memorial by Robert Graham. Bring binoculars to dwell on the many interesting details." This one says, "Frosty Meyer's The Wall on Houston and Broadway was installed in 1973. This reminds me of my childhood. My dad was an art mover in Soho and Downtown in the '60s and '70s. I used to drive around delivering with him. It hasn't changed a bit."

"Stained glass art in stations on elevated 2 line in the Bronx. Sorry, I don't recall the artist's names. These windows lift a rider's day."

Steve Harrington: Oh, God.

Jaime Rojo: Nice. Yes.

Steve Harrington: Love those subway installations.

Alison Stewart: You got one on your list.

Steve Harrington: As a matter of fact.

Jaime Rojo: We do.

Alison Stewart: 14th Station, Wild Things by Fred Tomaselli. Tell us about Fred Tomaselli.

Steve Harrington: He is from Brooklyn, originally from Chicago. He had a mid-career exhibition at the Brooklyn Museum in 2010. He uses compositions that incorporate painting, collage, resin-encased materials. They alter perception and they make me think that he has experimented with altered consciousness.

Alison Stewart: Oh.

Jaime Rojo: Oh.

Alison Stewart: Oh.

Steve Harrington: If you look at the depiction of the birds, that's more than just birds. They seem to reverberate. There's an oriole, there's a falcon, there's a cardinal, there's a woodpecker. Gorgeous. They all just went up in 2024.

Alison Stewart: That's really interesting because that subway line has been under-

Jaime Rojo: Construction for a long time.

Alison Stewart: -construction forever.

Steve Harrington: For my entire life.

Jaime Rojo: I want to give props to whoever is responsible for curating the art at the MTA because they've been doing a very good job at it. It's sometimes overwhelming to navigate those halls and you get lost and you never know if you're going into the right direction or not, but the art actually brightens your day. I like to say thank you to them, but I also like to tell them it is great that they are keeping the new art with tiles and ceramics. It's a material that is durable, that is very difficult to deface. It just brings so much color and vibrancy and life into our daily experiences using the public transportation.

Alison Stewart: It's Sandra Bloodworth from the MTA. We've had her on the show many times, so we'll give a shout-out to her.

Steve Harrington: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Gloria from the Upper West Side. Hi Gloria, thanks for calling All Of It. You're on the air.

Gloria: Hi, can you hear me?

Alison Stewart: Yes, I can hear you.

Gloria: Cool. [inaudible 00:28:48] getting the call. Let me just say I wanted to just recommend taking a peek at The Cornerstone. It's a carved granite stone at the corner of Prince and Broadway. It's made by a guy named Ken Hiratsuka, a Japanese artist who made it almost as soon as he got over here in 1982, carving by hand with hammer and chisel and doing it in the stealth of night. It really is a street graffiti in every way. The cops would pass by, but I don't think they picked him up for it. It did take quite a long time because he would have to just do it in small increments.

Alison Stewart: Thanks for your call. Let's talk to Dave in Kingston. Dave, you're our last caller.

Dave: Hey. Oh, great. I used to live on the Lower East Side, and I would cross Houston and 1st all the time. There were these linoleum cutouts that were somehow adhered to the crosswalk in the street. What I later found out, there was an artist who went by Toynybee that was going around to major cities applying these cutout tiles in different patterns and different words into the pavement somehow. Unfortunately, as New York City has been repaving the Lower East Side and other areas, these works are disappearing.

They're very primitive, and no one knows exactly who the artist is. Many people have tried to figure out what the process for getting them to stick to the asphalt has been, but no one's been able to figure it out. Unfortunately, they're starting to disappear.

Alison Stewart: Thank you for your call.

Steve Harrington: Those are a mystery.

Alison Stewart: They are a mystery. Our last one. We've got one more minute for it. I'm going to let you explain it. Yarn Slaves, various locations.

Steve Harrington: This is Dan Witts and Olek. Olek is from Poland. Dan Witts is probably the oldest street artist here. He started when he was a student at Cooper Union in the 1970s, putting paintings of hummingbirds. He is on the level of Dutch masters' painters, but he does this work that is easy to miss. He calls it in plain sight. These are gratings and windows that will normally occur in a cityscape, usually with some hands poking through them or a trapped person.

Alison Stewart: A little scary.

Steve Harrington: It is a little scary.

Jaime Rojo: It's scary. You might go every day a thousand times by that street, by that particular wall, and miss it. One day you will look at it and see, "Oh, there's something strange in there," and see that all this time you have seen something fake but real at the same time. Olek, she's from Poland. She's Polish American. She's now in Poland. She is mostly a yarn artist. They collaborated with these pieces and having two different styles and mediums. I was talking to you earlier about placement. This Dan Waits placement is key for him.

Alison Stewart: Steve Harrington and Jaime Rojo have been our guests. They are co-founders of the Brooklyn Street Art. Thank you for your list today. We really appreciate it.

Steve Harrington: Thank you so much.

Jaime Rojo: Thank you for having us. It's been a pleasure.

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