TOBIN: Kath.

KATHY: Yes?

[MUSIC STARTS]

TOBIN: Do you remember in the original run of Will & Grace, people thought it was a “will they, won’t they get together” thing at the end?

KATHY: No! People thought that? He’s gay!

TOBIN: People legitimately wondered if Will and Grace were going to get together at the end of the series.

KATHY: They thought they were end game? I’m not okay with this.

TOBIN: Well do you ever wonder if at the end of Nancy, you and I...

KATHY: Mmmm..

[MUSIC ENDS]

TOBIN: Kath, I’ve been meaning to tell you…

KATHY: No.

TOBIN: I’m getting down on one knee…

KATHY: No.

TOBIN: I’m getting down on one knee…

KATHY: No no no...

TOBIN: Here were go, this is it. End game of Nancy…

KATHY: No!

TOBIN: End game of Nancy, here we go...

KATHY: Quit it!

TOBIN: Okay let’s just start the show.

[THEME]

VOX: From WNYC Studios, this is Nancy!

VOX: With your hosts, Tobin Low and Kathy Tu.

[THEME MUSIC ENDS]

[WHISTLE]

KATHY: Tobin.

TOBIN: Yes Kathy.

KATHY: We’re in the middle of this project we’re calling “I’ve Been Meaning To Tell You…”

TOBIN: Uh-huh.

KATHY: Please tell the people what it is.

[MUSIC]

TOBIN: Well, basically we’re collecting stories from Nancy listeners and it’s all about the things they’ve been meaning to tell people in their life. And we’re gonna play some of them on the show.

KATHY: And how do you participate?

TOBIN: Okay, I want you to think about a person in your life.

KATHY: Okay.

TOBIN: Now think about something that you’ve been meaning to tell them, something that, if it was out in the open, could bring the two of you closer. Or maybe it’s something you want to get off your chest. And I don’t care who you are, everyone has something to tell. So we’ve been asking people to write down what that thing is, and send it to us.

KATHY: Yeah. So, the past few weeks we’ve been asking all of you to share with us at nancypodcast.org/tell and you definitely responded:

VOICE 1: There’s a lot that I’ve been meaning to tell you for a while…

VOICE 2: I have something to tell you.

VOICE 3: This is something I’ve been meaning to tell my mom...

VOICE 4: ...my 99yo grandmother…

VOICE 3: ...my family, bless their souls.

JOE: Uh this message is for my dad, um, something I’ve needed to say for a bit.

VOICE 1: So where should I start?

[MUSIC ENDS]

TOBIN: We received so many different kinds of stories. There have been letters to siblings and friends, confessions to parents and grandparents...

KATHY: Some are really sweet and funny. And others are really moving...

VOICE 3: Mom, I wanted to tell you that Paul was HIV positive when I met him. We fell deeply in love and I married him anyway. You loved him too. We kept that secret while we were together, for almost 20 years. I’m still HIV negative. We were always too afraid to tell you thinking that you would disown me and hate him for exposing me to potential death. Now you’re gone too and I’ll never get to tell you.

VOICE 5: To an old friend, I'm sorry I was such a shitty friend to you in 2015. My previous partner was pressuring me to abandon our friendship, and I couldn't say no to them. I didn't know then but I understand now that I was surviving emotional abuse, and that I was slowly being isolated from all my friends. But you meant the world to me, and I'm sorry I left our friendship.

VOICE 2: Dear family.

[MUSIC]

VOICE 2: Remember that time in 2009 when I came home from college and sat around all day looking like Kenny from South Park with a hoodie tight around my face? And then when I was finally forced to take it off for family dinner, do you remember the horror all around as the left side of my face was revealed? "Oh my god, what happened?!" you all exclaimed, abandoning your pork roast to gather very close and examine the hideous dark purple lizard-like markings covering my cheek and neck. "Uhh..." I muttered, eyes darting wildly anywhere but yours, "I laid in the grass last night and I think maybe I got a fungal infection? I don’t know!" Family, I am here to tell you, that was a lie. The reason I showed up for dinner in 2009 looking like a lizard Animorph halfway through one of those book covers was that the night before, my "best friend" and I had discovered a fun new game where you take turns sucking the other person's neck until they can’t take it anymore. You know, normal friend stuff. Just gals being pals.

[MUSIC CRESCENDO]

VOICE 2: Sweet family, you believed me when I said my gigantic face collage of hickeys was a fungal infection, and that unopened tube of antifungal cream that you insisted I drive to CVS and get immediately haunts me in my medicine cabinet to this day.

[MUSIC ENDS]

TOBIN: These stories are fascinating. And a lot of times, we heard about conflicts from years ago that just festered and festered until a relationship totally fell apart.

KATHY: I’ve had a relationship fall apart, Tobin.

TOBIN: Oh yeah?

KATHY: It was with my sister.

TOBIN: Oh, right, right, right.

KATHY: Yeah. We got in a fight years ago, like back in middle school. I honestly can’t even remember what it was about. But we didn’t talk for a long while after that.

TOBIN: How long is a long while?

KATHY: Maybe don’t worry about it, Tobin.

TOBIN: [LAUGHS] Okay.

KATHY: Don’t worry about it. But then it took her reaching out to me at one point and me being open to it that, you know, we’re much better.

TOBIN: And did you ever feel like you were sort of playing this game of chicken, like is she gonna reach out? Am I gonna reach out? Is she going to reach out?

KATHY: Mmhmm. Totally.

TOBIN: And then before you know it, like, all this time has passed.

KATHY: [LAUGHS] Yeah.

TOBIN: It reminds me of this one message we got from this girl, Jessica, to her friend, Claire.

JESSICA VOICE MEMO: Hey, remember before the Halloween party a couple years ago? You told me that you had discussed my and my girlfriend's sexuality with people that I didn't know. And you told me they asked what kind of lesbian I was, and you answered? It hurt me so much that you spoke so candidly about my life to strangers, and it hurt me even more that you described me in stereotypes without taking the opportunity to explain to that person why the question he asked was insensitive. But, when I was upset with you, you didn't take responsibility. And that put a crack in our friendship that grew and grew. Now, we haven't been friends in years, which is so dumb! Because I miss you. I didn’t think it was something that would break us apart.

TOBIN: What kinds of things was she saying about you to other people?

JESSICA: She was saying things like well, you know, she has short hair, but it’s still cool. And she wears skirts and pants like the same amount of times and she likes musicals theater. And I don't know what any of that means in relation to my lesbianism.

TOBIN: Mm-hmm.

JESSICA: But she felt the need to share that as examples when I think that feels like the appropriate answer would have been like a regular one because I think that I'm a regular lesbian, or like I would have been better for it to say like I put an inappropriate question and here's why.

TOBIN: You like musical theater as you mentioned.

JESSICA: I love musical theater.

TOBIN: Okay, I'm going to give you three rapid fire. What's what is the song for musical theater that represents your situation right now?

JESSICA: Oh my gosh. Not related to the actual meaning of the song but probably the “I Should Tell You” song from Rent.

TOBIN: Perfect, perfect. What song from musical theater would you sing to her to communicate your feelings?

JESSICA: I think to convey that I understand we both had a difficult time I would sing “A Hard Knock Life.” It’s not very emotional…

TOBIN: [LAUGHS]

JESSICA: ...but like, I think it speaks to life has ups and downs.

KATHY: [LAUGHS]

TOBIN: And once you've reconciled, what musical theater would you sing to possibly communicate that you were best friends and then something happened where you fell apart, but you came back together and maybe one of you is green.

KATHY: [LAUGHS]

JESSICA: I was thinking “For Good!” from Wicked.

TOBIN: Correct answer.

[MUSIC] WICKED - FOR GOOD

I have been changed for good

And just to clear the air, I ask forgiveness for the things I've done you blame me for

But then, I guess we know there's blame to share

And none of it seems to matter anymore

[MUSIC CUTS OUT]

JESSICA: Correct and it’s accurate.

KATHY: What do you think will need to happen for you to reach out to her and tell these things.

JESSICA: Well I'm on a bit of a time crunch. I think if I really want to do it because I'm getting married in January.

TOBIN: Aha.

JESSICA: Yeah. And I've always pictured her there because she's one of my closest friends, or used to be. You know I've been thinking about it more and more as the date approaches and I sent this off because I'm like, at the very least, well maybe if something comes of this it'll be you know a sign that I should contact her. And obviously we're talking on the phone now, so I think that's about as straightforward as the universe can get. [LAUGHS]

KATHY: Yeah.

TOBIN: Yeah, yeah. We are your homosexual omens right here.

KATHY: [LAUGHS]

JESSICA: [LAUGHS] That's all I need. I wish everybody had one of those. [LAUGHS]

TOBIN: [LAUGHS]

[MUSIC]

KATHY: Tobin, I know we can’t call back everyone we heard from…

TOBIN: We cannot.

KATHY: But there’s one person that I really want to call back.

TOBIN: Okay one more.

TOBIN: Hello?

KATHY: Hello?

JOE: Hello! How are y’all?

KATHY: Is this Joe?

JOE: This is Joe. And that's Kathy, I recognize your voice very well.

TOBIN & KATHY: [LAUGH]

JOE: I heard Tobin as well so it's really nice to talk to you all. I feel like I know you.

TOBIN: [LAUGHS]

KATHY: Aww, Joe thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us.

TOBIN: Yeah, thank you.

JOE: Oh you bet.

KATHY: Who is the person that you've been meaning to tell something to?

JOE: My dad, primarily.

TOBIN: What specifically have you been meaning to tell him?

JOE: Well, I came out to my dad as gay after I got divorced a little more than five years ago from a woman I've been married to for a little over 20 years, actually a little over 20 years 21. You know, long story short and it's hard for me to tell this story frankly because I don't fully understand it myself. But you know after coming out and dating for a little bit, I had a little bit of a you know, “I'm not sure if this is me.” And I sent my dad a long email one night saying you know, “I don't think I'm really gay. Maybe this is just a midlife crisis.” And he emailed me back the next morning saying, “Well, I've never really believed you were anyway.”

TOBIN & KATHY: Hmm.

JOE: I don't know if I'm gay, I’m queer, I'm bi. I don't even know that it's helpful to really define myself that way, but I know I'm not straight. The trigger now is I've met somebody I like a lot. I don't know if that's gonna turn into a long, long term relationship or not but I certainly wanted to have the room to grow. And so I want to tell my dad I'm dating a man I like. I think he’ll be more confused than anything else.  

TOBIN: So what do you think has been holding you back?

JOE: I think it was partially just me needing some time to kind of you know live and be out and not married and find out what I like and who I like and what I'm comfortable with. And not wanting to sort of try and resolve things with my dad before I resolve things with myself in a sense.

TOBIN: Yeah.

KATHY: Do you think, um, you getting the chance to tell him, do you think that's coming up? Is it years from now? What do you think?

JOE: I think it's coming up. I'm going up to visit him and my sister in Dallas later this month for my birthday. And so I've gotta...I've got a choice about whether I bring this new man of my life. And I have too much respect for the person I'm dating to want to hide him.  

KATHY: Joe, when you go visit him next, do you think you’ll bring your partner down with you, or...

JOE: I don't know. I think if I, if I bring him with me, I'll tell him ahead of time. I don't think the right thing to do would be just to come up to Dallas...

Tobin: Surprise! [LAUGHS]

JOE: And say oh by the way! [LAUGHS] Although that would be hilarious.  

[ALL LAUGH]

[MUSIC]

KATHY: Joe is such a lovely man.

TOBIN: He is!

KATHY: I hope he gets back to us good news.

TOBIN: Only good news, though. Just kidding. We want to hear from you, Joe, whatever happens.

KATHY: And we want to hear from everybody else, too! Go to nancypodcast.org/tell to share your story with us.

TOBIN: In minute, we’ve got a story of someone who was brave enough to reveal something to an old friend. And...there’s poetry involved.

KATHY: That’s after the break.

[MUSIC ENDS]

[MIDROLL]

[MUSIC]

TOBIN: And we’re back!

KATHY: So we’re fascinated by what can happen when you have something you want to say and you are brave enough to come out and say it.

TOBIN: Totally. And I mean, you hear stories all the time about how that can go really well.

KATHY: Hmhmm.

TOBIN: You know, like someone feels like they’ve had this weight, and all of a sudden, it’s lifted and it’s this huge relief.

KATHY: That’s true.

TOBIN: Uh huh.

KATHY: True...but!

TOBIN: [LAUGHS] Okay…

KATHY: There’s no guarantee, Tobin, because there’s other people’s feelings involved. It can get messy. You just don’t know what the other person’s gonna say.

TOBIN: Right. Which actually brings us to this story. About a year and a half ago, our friend Peter Bresnan had something he just had to get off his chest. Here’s Peter.

PETER: I remember the exact date I fell in love with Joe: it was June 6th, 2010. [SCHOOL BELL RINGS] It was the end of my junior year of high school. And this is boarding school, so picture lush manicured lawns and Georgian architecture and salmon-colored shorts. Everyone was about to go home for the summer, but before we left, a group of my friends and I decided to have a sleepover in one of our dorm rooms. And the next day, for some reason I woke up very early, probably around 6 or 7 in the morning. And when I opened my eyes, I saw that my friend Joe was awake, too. Joe was this skinny, pale, redheaded kid who was in my class. We knew each other a little — we acted in our school’s production of Arsenic and Old Lace together, and I was drawn to his frantic way of moving through the world that was somehow both anxious and fearless at the same time — but mostly we were more like polite strangers.

But then that morning, something happened. It was super early, Joe was standing by the door, getting dressed. He didn’t notice I was awake, too. There was a beam of light coming in from the window. And the light landed on Joe’s face in this way that made his pale skin glow and his red hair glow. And I don’t know why, but in that second, before I was even fully awake, I realized that I loved Joe more than I had ever loved anyone else in my entire life.

For most people in that situation, the next step would be obvious. But for me, it wasn’t so easy. I’d only just come out the year before, and I still couldn’t even say the word “gay” out loud. And to make matters worse, while I thought Joe might be gay, he wasn’t saying anything about it either.

Still, I tried. My attempts at romance ranged from the subtle — sending him an anonymous cupcake on Valentine’s day — to the extremely subtle — brushing my hand against his when we walked past each other in the hallways. Sometimes Joe seemed to reciprocate these little gestures — he’d smile, or he’d grab my hand a little as I passed — and sometimes he didn’t. For about a year this was my life. Then we graduated. But my love for Joe just kept getting stronger and stronger.

Then, six months after we graduated, Joe came and visited me in college, at NYU.

[MUSIC BED]

PETER: And those six long months apart from Joe had made me a little more confident and a little more desperate. And so, late on the night of Joe’s visit, we were sitting on the floor of my common room. All my roommates had gone to bed. And then, in the lull between one topic of conversation and another, I leaned forward and I kissed him. And Joe kissed me back.

[BEAT]

PETER: The next morning, I woke up and Joe and I were lying in bed together. And in that moment I saw the future. I imagined Joe meeting my parents. I wondered what gay men were supposed to wear to a wedding. I hoped that our children might have red hair.

But when Joe woke up, he got dressed and he left.

[MUSIC FADES OUT]

PETER: After that visit, my contact with Joe slowly fell to zero. He stopped responding to my text messages. And there were moments when I wondered if maybe the night we’d spent making out on my dorm room floor had been, like, one vast hallucination. And at this point, I could have chosen to forget about Joe. I’d already spent two years pining after him, as it was. But instead, I started writing love poems. [MUSIC BED] So that, one day, when Joe was ready, I could share them with him.

KATHY: I'm assuming you don’t mean a haiku?

PETER: No, I wrote, I started writing Shakespearean love sonnets.

TOBIN: Oh, man.

PETER: So, there’s different kinds of sonnets, and I chose the Shakespearean form.

KATHY: Because?

PETER: [LAUGHS] Because it seemed the most impressive to me. They were created as a way to show a lover that you loved them, so you did this incredibly complicated, incredibly obtuse piece of poetry in order to prove to your lady that you were skilled in the art of language.

TOBIN: You wanted the grand gesture?

PETER: I wanted the grand gesture. Yeah. So I think I wrote fifteen-ish sonnets, and then I gave them a title, and the title was: Verses in Amber.

[MUSIC FADES OUT]

TOBIN: Wow.

KATHY: Verses in Amber?

TOBIN: Why Verses in Amber?

PETER: Like, so, the -- amber is that thing where, like, insects will sometimes crawl into tree sap, and then the sap will, like, solidify? That’s -- and that’s like -- and that’s so -- and -- that’s amber, and so the idea was that I would ...

TOBIN: It was like a romantic Jurassic Park.

KATHY: I was gonna say that too! [BEAT] So what happened to the poems?

PETER: Um, I put them in this little black accordion folder, and I just put them away, and I was gonna wait until Joe was ready to see them. And so I sat on them for 6 years. And one night I had too many fruit punches to drink, and I decided that it was time to invite Joe over to my apartment to show him these poems.

[MUSIC BED]

PETER: And, so I give him a call, and a couple days later, he shows up at my front door.

[DOOR OPENS]

PETER: Hey.

JOE: Hey.

PETER: It’s the right house. Come here.

PETER: Joe looks basically the same way he did back in high school. He’s still got the same red hair, the same bright blue eyes. We made small talk for a few minutes. And eventually we went to go sit down on my couch. I was really excited to finally talk openly with him.

[MUSIC FADES OUT]

PETER: Can you tell me what we’re doing here?

JOE: Yeah, we’re having a conversation about how you used to be in love with me and I apparently had no idea. Is that generally what we’re doing? And there’s poetry involved.

[MUSIC COMES BACK IN]

PETER: Umm, I guess the first thing, before I show you anything … Can you tell me about your memories of me, your first memories, and I can see if I can remember my first memories of you, too?

PETER: We started with our first year in high school; we talked about that that production of Arsenic and Old Lace we’d been in together.

JOE: And you were the romantic lead.

PETER: And you were the reverend.

JOE: No, no, no, no. I was a police officer. I think I was onstage for all of three scenes.

PETER: You were in the cutest little outfit, I remember.

JOE: It’s true, it’s true.

PETER: And eventually, I told him about the morning when I’d fallen in love with him. And I asked: If I had said something to him all those years ago, how would he have responded?

[MUSIC OUT]

JOE: I probably would have run like hell for the hills. No, I was … No, I don’t think I would have taken that well at all. I wouldn’t have known what to do with it.

PETER: Was it because it scared you, or … ?

JOE: Was I -- was I terrified? I mean, I was uncertain. I didn’t really know ... I don’t know where, which direction forward was. I don’t think I would have begrudged you it. But I would have been confused and conflicted.

[SUBTLE, DRAMATIC MUSIC IN]

PETER: At last, we got to the poems. I took out the black accordion folder I’d kept the poems in for all those years, and I pulled out a sheet of paper.

JOE: Yeah. Do you want me to read it?

PETER: Do you mind reading it out loud, actually? Okay, there you go.

[MUSIC OUT]

JOE: Though dreams be wild, none be so wild as this crepuscular illusion of present you, who offers, as this be in sleep, a kiss remembered fresh and wet as if were new.

But what so floods my sheets in midnight warmth is not imagined touch,

but a silence sheer that marks you close, and clears the blaring earth of all but us.

Electric hums the air when you do share, not just a grasping bed,

but chairs across an empty table, or a room, a street, cities, a time far spread, with me.

You’re here, I cannot ask for more. And once awake, and ghostly forms are passed,

I cry to see the dreams at my feet amassed.

[PAUSE]

PETER: Cre -- Crepuscular means, “Of --

JOE: No, you’ve written it “Crepuscular.”

PETER: Yeah, crepuscular.

JOE: Meaning?

PETER: “Of or relating to twilight.”

JOE: Certainly. Okay.

[PAUSE]

PETER: Can I ask you how you feel? Because your face is sort of hard to read.

JOE: I don’t know how I feel. Umm. It’s a nice poem. It’s … strange to imagine that it’s about … us. That’s strange.

PETER: Why is it strange?

JOE: I don’t know, to be a character in a poem? It didn’t feel this pretty. This isn’t what I experienced, even a little. This does not describe what happened, as far as I’m concerned.

[PAUSE]

PETER: And then we just kind of sat there … for a while. Joe’s eyes were glued to the sheet of paper.

PETER: And then, like, I’ll show you --

JOE: We were in a relationship! I had no idea. [PAUSE] We were! -- There is a whole narrative here that I was not privy to, that I did not participate in. I didn’t -- I didn’t have access to this. I wasn’t allowed to see this.

PETER: But am I wrong in thinking that … that you ... You wouldn’t have wanted to see this?

JOE: I don’t know if that’s fair to say. I don’t know how I would have responded five years ago.

PETER: If I had just sent you an email with my poetry in the spring of 2011, you know, in our freshman year, would you have ever talked to me again? I mean …

JOE: I would have been disappointed in myself for not feeling as deeply about anything as you seemed to have felt about me.

[GENTLE MUSIC IN]

PETER: For the next hour or so, Joe and I picked through every detail, every memory I had of what I thought had been a kind of courtship. All those times I brushed my hand against his in the hallway? He didn’t remember those. The anonymous cupcake I sent him on Valentine’s Day? Maybe, but vaguely. The night we made out in my NYU dorm room?

JOE: I -- it was -- I think it was more of an experimentation on my part than it was a stab at something deeper. I did not leave that dorm room in the same head-space at all.

PETER: Does this make you feel loved at all?

JOE: No, not particularly.

PETER: You’re saying I loved you like crazy for a long period of time, and that doesn’t make you feel loved?

JOE: No. Why would it? I wasn’t there.

[MUSIC OUT]

JOE: I don’t know, I’m not someone who’s done much thinking on the nature of love in-between two people. But I don’t imagine that you can go back and add love later to a memory or a relationship.

[MUSIC IN]

PETER:  And … let me see if there’s anything else I need from you. Unless you have any other questions?

JOE: I think I’m all set. Okay. [MIC TURNS OFF]

[BEAT]

TOBIN: Oh, man.

KATHY: [SIGH]

TOBIN: Yeah, I mean, I have to ask: was this the worst case scenario?

PETER: Yeah, I mean, yeah. It was the worst case scenario. I wanted Joe to tell me that he had loved me for a second -- for even one fleeting second, he had liked me back. And I didn’t even get that. I got the emotional equivalent of a concrete wall.

TOBIN: Right.

PETER: And I’ll try to rationalize this a lot, but I was so mad. I was pissed off. And then I started going back through, not just my crush on Joe, but all of my past relationships. And I started thinking maybe there were other things I’d missed: maybe this wasn’t the first time I’d imagined a love that wasn’t there. [PAUSE] And then, I found something.

TOBIN: Ooh, this sounds ominous.

PETER: I was doing something you shouldn’t do -- which is read through all the Facebook messages you’ve sent to your ex-boyfriends.

TOBIN & KATHY: Ohh …

PETER: And I happen to find this old Facebook message from my very first boyfriend, Jeffrey, who I dated in high school, right around the time I fell in love with Joe. I looked in it and the very first message was a love poem.

TOBIN: That you had written?

PETER: No, that he had written to me.

TOBIN: Ahh. Do you have it?

PETER: But -- I do.

TOBIN: Ohh.

PETER: This is the poem:

The icy darkness.

I plunge into it

like a swimmer in the sea

feeling no cold on anxious skin.

I feel the heat

from the furnace

in little gestures: a stroke here

a caress there, a stolen kiss on the cheek.

The fire burns,

consuming anxiety

leaving passion wild as untamed jungles consumed in its raging blaze.

[GENTLE MUSIC IN] I see his eyes --

bright as stars,

golden as a summer's liquid beam --

shine on my face in wonder.

Their liquid light

is comforting as earth;

stoke the fire burning under my skin,

capture me in their crystal-perfect gaze.

No more darkness.

Only pure light

As you hold me in your arms

And stroke my hair -- never letting go. [MUSIC OUT]

TOBIN: That’s a beautiful poem. I mean, like --

KATHY: High school, right?

PETER: Yeah, that was high school. We were 16.

TOBIN & KATHY: Wow.

TOBIN: The level of passion.

KATHY: Jeffrey really loved you.

TOBIN: I mean, is that representative of your relationship at the time, with Jeffrey?

PETER: It’s not, because … I didn’t really love Jeffrey back.

KATHY: Oh, Peter ...

PETER: Okay. I was 16 and I had just come out. And I think I was -- I think I was so confused -- I was still really struggling with who I was, I just was not in a place to feel anything toward anybody.

TOBIN: I have to point out the obvious here: do you realize that what you just said parallels pretty intensely what Joe said to you?

PETER: Yeah. And that makes me sad. Because, being in the place in life that I am, where I think I want deep love, it’s super hard to get that poem, because I was like, “Oh shit, there was an opportunity of someone who really deeply cared about me, and it didn’t -- it didn’t affect me.” And that was sad. It feels like something that I missed. And I read that and I just -- I stopped being mad at Joe, like, all of a sudden. And I think what I ultimately realized was that … I don’t think I was ever in love with Joe, honestly.

KATHY: Well, I dunno. I feel like I’ve fallen in love with an image before of somebody that I couldn’t get out of my head, and I would argue that that was still love.

PETER: Mhm.

KATHY: Like, it’s still a thing that exists, I wouldn’t say that that wasn’t really love.

PETER: I guess, for me, it’s not the love that I want.

KATHY:  Hmm.

TOBIN: Yeah.

PETER: The kind of love that I want, I think, is the love that acknowledges another person in all their sort of failings and foibles and beauties and amazingness.

[MUSIC PLAYS OUT]

KATHY: That was Peter Bresnan. He’s a producer over at one of our favorite podcasts, Heavyweight.

TOBIN: By the way, Peter says that since this story aired last year, he is still very much #looking4love.

KATHY: Peter.

TOBIN: We love you.

[CREDIT MUSIC STARTS]

TOBIN: Don’t forget, if you want to share what you’ve been meaning to tell someone in your life, it’s super easy. Just send us your story by going to nancypodcast.org/tell.  

KATHY: Alright, credits!

TOBIN: Our producer…

KATHY: Matt Collette!

TOBIN: Sound designer…

KATHY: Jeremy Bloom!

TOBIN: Production fellow…

KATHY: Temitayo Fagbenle!

TOBIN: Editor…

KATHY: Jenny Lawton!

TOBIN: Executive Producer…

KATHY: Paula Szuchman!

TOBIN: Special thanks this week to Laine Kaplan-Levenson!

KATHY: I’m Kathy Tu.

TOBIN: I’m Tobin Low.

KATHY: And Nancy is a production of WNYC Studios.

JESSICA: Yeah, it was so nice to meet you guys over the phone.

TOBIN: Same!

KATHY: Maybe one day in person!

TOBIN: At your wedding! Just kidding.

[ALL LAUGH]

TOBIN: I’m just imagining us like Whitney Houston over Brandy’s wedding in Cinderella—the only acceptable Cinderella…

JESSICA: [LAUGHS]

TOBIN: And we’re just floating over in like gold dust being like…

KATHY: Oh my god.

TOBIN: [SINGING] “It’s possible!”

KATHY: [LAUGHS]

JESSICA: I think that’s the only thing my wedding still needs.

TOBIN: Yeah.

JESSICA: That fairy godmother moment.

 

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