Speaker 1: 36 million US Latinos are eligible to vote this year, an increase of 4 million since the last presidential election.

Speaker 2: Latinos are a young community. Every election cycle, you're going to see a significant number who are voting for the first time.

Speaker 3: And winning over Hispanic and Latino voters could be key to winning the White House.

Speaker 4: The people who have suffered the most from Kamala Harris' open borders are people of Latino descent.

Kamala Harris: They have pledged to carry out the largest deportation, a mass deportation in American history. Imagine what that would look like and what that would be.

Speaker 5: There's a lot of people who believe that they're being used by the Democratic party every time there's an election.

Speaker 6: Talking to Latinos in Florida, Arizona, Chicago, California is going to be different. You need to tailor your message to these different communities.

Janae Pierre: It's Notes from America. I'm Janae Pierre. Welcome to the show. Kai Wright will be back in the host chair next week but last week, Kai started a conversation on this show about Latino voters and the 2024 election, about how Spanish language radio in particular has become a platform for political propaganda and misinformation. And that's hugely important because the target for these messages is one of the most important voting blocs in the country. We'll pick up that conversation now with an invitation to you, especially to Latino listeners in our audience, to give us a call and to talk to us about what your political priorities are heading into November. What are you hearing from the candidates that excites you and makes you want to engage politically? And what do you wish you were hearing? Give us a call at 844-745-8255. Again, that number is 844-745-8255 you can send us a text as well.

Now to help us through this discussion are two people who spend plenty of time thinking about this very topic and about the communities that make up the largest minority in the US. I'm talking about Mike Madrid and Chuck Rocha. They're co-host of the Latino Vote podcast. They're political strategists from different sides of the aisle. Mike is a GOP consultant, co-founder of the Lincoln Project, and author of the new book The Latino Century: How America's Largest Minority is Transforming Democracy. Hi, Mike. Glad to have you with us.

Mike Madrid: It's so great to be with you. Thanks for having me.

Janae Pierre: Of course. And Chuck Rocha is a Democratic Party consultant who has served as senior strategist for Bernie Sanders. Chuck, thanks for being with us.

Chuck Rocha: My pleasure. Thanks for having us.

Janae Pierre: Mike, I'd like to share a couple lines from the first chapter of your book. You write, "Since the 1980s, Latino voters have been telling pollsters who they are and who they are, contradicts the conventional wisdom that Latino voters are, as it is usually put, not monolithic." Mike, you're a GOP strategist with decades of experience. What are the common assumptions being made by the GOP regarding the latino vote?

Mike Madrid: Well, actually, the assumptions being made by the GOP are virtually the same as the Democrats, but let's start with the Republicans for just a moment. The first is that there's this stereotypical image of who we are as a Spanish dominant or Spanish exclusive speaker who's very recently migrated, often an immigrant themselves. There's obviously a lot of truth to that but less than 20% of our Latino voters get their information in Spanish.

About 20% of voters are recently migrated as well. The explosion in all of these numbers as you mentioned in your introduction of who we are, is changing and it's changing dramatically. Huge growth in numbers of second and third and now even a fourth generation voter is changing the whole idea of what Latinidad is or Latino identity, and it is radically different than some of the stereotypes that we've come to believe over the past 25 or 30 years.

Janae Pierre: Now, Chuck, you similarly have decades of experience as a political consultant, but in the Democratic and progressive space. And Mike mentioned that those misconceptions are the same. Can you talk a bit more about that?

Chuck Rocha: Well, it's hard to understand a community that's average age is 27. In certain states, it's closer to 30, and in certain states, it's closer to 25 and when you have a consultant class of people trying to vigorously work to get out their vote on the Democrat or Republican side, the thing that you recognize right away is that me and Mike are very different from the rest because we are two Latino consultants who've done this for a long time.

The basics is even more elementary than what Mike describes, which is there's a whole lot of well intentioned people, I would even say, on both sides of the party, trying to reach our community who never have actually been in our community, who've read about us in a book and think they know about all the different nuances of the community, whether it's Spanish or English, whether it's Puerto Rican or Mexican.

And so the basics is there's just not a lot of Latinos actually coming up with strategies for Latino voters and so you see a lot of those strategies miss their mark many times.

Janae Pierre: Let's get into how Latino voters are feeling about Trump and Harris. Mike?

Mike Madrid: Well, look, Kamala Harris has made some very significant adjustments that are putting her and her party back into a very competitive position where they had been slipping away up until the Democratic party changed nominees. A couple of the reasons why she's closing the gap defy conventional wisdom. The first is she's taken a very, very aggressive stance on border security, probably the most conservative, frankly, Republican position in 30 years, maybe ever for a Democrat.

We were seeing these numbers getting worse and worse under Joe Biden's leadership when he was the nominee because there was this real hesitancy coming from a decades-long, at least, I would argue, maybe even longer hesitancy for Democrats to lean into the border security debate. This changed exponentially when Tom Suozzi, Congressman from there in New York, won the special election for the vacant George Santos seat, leaning strongly into a border security message. It worked.

It worked marvelously and then you immediately saw Joe Biden begin to pivot and then Kamala Harris has essentially hit the gas on this issue. Some of the most significant shifts to the right, to Donald Trump, to the Republican Party, happened along the border, where border security is a very real issue. It's a very significant threat and Latino voters are saying quite loudly, we need some relief here. This is out of control. We need to bring this back into a normal place where we have some control over our borders. And Kamala Harris has provided that.

Again, can't underscore how significant of a change it is in the orthodoxy of the Democratic party to move from this racially polarized issue of immigration away from it and take a position 180 degrees different but she's done even more than that. She's actually leaned into this, what I call the Marshall plan for housing, this very significant housing plan that speaks directly to Latinos as employees and potential customers.

One in five Latino men work in the construction industry or related field. When interest rates tripled and inflation ate up 20% of the value of our dollar, it was Latinos who were very, very significantly impacted, both on the jobs side in terms of building and construction, but also, perhaps just as importantly, that younger Demographic Chuck mentioned. These first time homebuyers that couldn't get into a home.

Her plan really does speak directly to this constituency. It's a Latino housing plan, especially when you recognize not just the demography of what I'm outlining, but also some of the restrictions on home buying that aren't just for first-time homebuyers, they're literally for first-time homebuyers where there has never been a homeowner in their family, that's a Latino policy. It's very smart. It's incredibly shrewd and if the polls are accurate, I think they are, this tack on both of these issues is working.

Janae Pierre: Chuck, would you like to chime in here?

Chuck Rocha: Yes, if I could build off of that or what Mike's saying a little bit, I think that it's really important to-- when you come up with a policy, anybody can come up with a policy. If policy got people elected, Elizabeth Warren would have been the nominee and the President because remember, she had a policy for everything. It's not just having a policy, it's having the money and the intentionality to go talk to voters, especially Latino voters, about what your policy is going to do to make their lives better.

If you're just going to have a social media post or have a press conference, that's not politicking. That's just one small part of it. What we're seeing right now, and just measuring one thing, Mike was right about, the Spanish language, 20-30% of our electorate consumes all their information in Spanish but if you just look at something to measure and look at the Spanish dollars being spent by the Presidential campaign and they're supporting super pacs, they're outspending the Republicans almost 20:1.

That's $20 million that's been spent so far to just 1 million. You have one side talking about trying to reach Latinos and the other side actually spending money to deliver that message on housing that Mike's talking about.

Janae Pierre: I want to pose this same question that we posed to our audience to you two, what should candidates be doing to capture the Latino vote? Now, a user named Angel of Harlem, she commented and said they should not stereotype them by assuming that immigration is their only concern. Speak to them with honesty and respect, treat them like stakeholders but Mike, what's your response? What should candidates be doing to capture the Latino vote?

Mike Madrid: Well, look, I think Angel is first of all, exactly right. I think there needs to be this movement away from this desperate need that we have in our political and media culture to impose this frame of immigration on our community. One, it is an important issue, it is one that we hold near and dear to our hearts but for 30 years, polling, every single credible poll in the last 30 years has said by a wide margin that it's the economy, it's affordability, it's upward mobility that Latino voters want and are demanding and neither party has really meaningfully addressed that.

I would argue up until now with Kamala Harris' plan. This is a moment I've looked for both parties and I've worked on both sides of the aisle to really figure out and crack the code. Her movement away from that issue, which has really been hurting and hampering Democratic prospects for the better part of a decade, is showing Democrats a new way. I'm not too sure Republicans will be able to figure out the immigration piece on their own. I don't hold out a lot of hope for that.

What I will say is they have been getting votes, an increasing share of the vote, Latino vote for the better part of a decade, one because of the insistence that Democrats focus on immigration reform as a mobilizing issue for our community when it's not, but also because Democrats have been losing their grip on working-class voters broadly. It's not just Latino voters, it's white voters, it's African American voters and losing the working class is something they've got to put a stop to if they're going to be competitive in national elections going forward.

Janae Pierre: Chuck, I'd like to get your response on the other side of the break. We're talking about Latinos and the influence they will have on the outcome of the 2024 election. My guests are Chuck Rocha and Mike Madrid, political strategist and co-host of the Latino Vote podcast. Coming up, we'll take your calls. You can hit us up at 844-745-8255 to add your voice to this conversation. I'm Janae Pierre, in for Kai Wright. This is Notes from America. We'll be right back.

It's Notes from America. I'm Janae Pierre in for Kai Wright. We're talking about the political power of Latino voters in 2024 with Chuck Rocha and Mike Madrid. The two are co-hosts of the podcast The Latino Vote. Chuck is a consultant for the Democratic Party and Mike does that same thing for Republicans. And he's the author of a new book called The Latino Century. We're inviting your calls about the importance of voters from Latino communities in this election.

What are some opportunities Republicans and Democrats are missing when it comes to creating a policy agenda that appeals to this specific voting bloc? We'll take your questions as well. What do you want to better understand about Latino voters in this election year? Give us a call or send us a text at 844-745-8255t. Now gentlemen, before the break, I asked the audience and our guests, what should candidates be doing to capture the Latino vote. Chuck, what are your thoughts there?

Chuck Rocha: I think the first thing is making sure that you're being intentional about reaching out. If you're running in an area and Latinos only make up 20% of it, many consultants and folks will say, well, it's really not worth to have to put together a separate messaging arc for these Latino voters. A, only 30% of them speak Spanish, they're this, they're that, they have a lower turnout percentage, which are all misconceptions of our vote because of how young we are.

If you spend time to go talk to a Latino, you'll get 2:1 your return. Take that from me. You can take it from a Republican, Mike Madrid, because we're a real aspirational group and probably some of the most aspirational voters out there, again, because we haven't been jaded as much as regular American people because we're younger, we're second generation, we're first generation, many of us are third and fourth generation like me. What you've seen is this economic populist message work and resonate with our voters.

They want somebody who will speak to them about their concerns, which sounds very easy as a consultant, but it's different when you start showing up in a cultural area where you have to deliver that in English, you have to deliver that in Spanish. They're younger, you probably have to run a digital ad. The biggest mistake we see happening is almost right now in this presidential election with the Republican party is take the time to spend the money.

This is a persuadable audience who wants to hear from you but if you don't talk to them just because they're young, they are not going to perform at the same level as Black or White voters and they use that against us all the time.

Janae Pierre: I'd like to go to the phones now. We have Miguel in North Carolina. He says Latino vote also has to take into consideration us foreign policy as a Democrat, questioning right now. Welcome to the show, Miguel.

Miguel: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Janae Pierre: You have a question or comment for our guest?

Miguel: Yes, definitely. Yes, I'm in a swing state and yes, of course, Latinos, we are interested in having better economic status and we are concerned about domestic policy, but we are also global citizens because of the ways we have arrived here. Our families, parents, grandparents and ourselves, we have a quite wide understanding of global issues. And as a Democrat, I'm quite hesitant in voting Democratic because of what is going on with foreign policy.

One thing is, of course, immigration. We know that there is not political capital to call for a reform, complete reform of the system but also we are concerned about war on drugs, we are concerned about the conflicts that are happening in the Middle East, we are concerned about the amount of money that our taxes are taking to go to these conflicts and we don't see a real change on that and then I would like to hear some of the comments from your board.

Janae Pierre: Thanks for the call Miguel. Mike, Chuck, do you guys want to respond?

Chuck Rocha: I'll let Mike do all the foreign policy questions.

Mike Madrid: I'm happy to jump in on that. Look, there's no question that these are issues on the forefront of the minds of a lot of Americans. I would even surmise to say that it's on the minds of a lot of younger folks who've been motivated, particularly about this changing world that we're living through. There's also a lot of evidence to suggest that because we do have a much broader swath of more recently migrated individuals in our diaspora, that these issues are going to have a very strong, passionate resonance.

Having said that, all of the evidence suggests that the top five motivating issues for Latino voters are domestic. They are the jobs, they are economy, they are health, they are education. They are immigration, too, by the way, peeking into the top five but it's as much border security or more border security than it is the traditional conceptions of immigration reform. It doesn't mean we don't care about immigration reform, we certainly do, but we've got to follow the lead of where latino voters are telling us they want prioritization.

No question's on border security. Look, foreign policy is in increasing on the minds of American voters broadly. I have no doubt that is the case with Latinos, but overwhelmingly it is domestic concerns that are going to be driving the 2024 vote as far as Latinos are concerned.

Janae Pierre: Thanks. I want to thank Miguel for that call out of North Carolina. In a recent episode of your podcast, you spoke to a progressive organizer from North Carolina, and we hear a lot about the Conservative Cuban vote in Florida. It makes me wonder about what states we should be looking to to understand broader trends in the Latino vote.

Chuck Rocha: Oh, this is me. I'll jump in here on Mike since you got to be the smarty pants about the foreign relations stuff. There's only a handful of states and on your lead, you did a great job talking about how the Latino vote will be the deciding factor in the Presidential election and that's going to come down to six big states, seven big states if you include North Carolina, which me and Mike do, which are Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, we call those, the Rust Belt, the industrial heartland.

Then we have the out west states, which are Arizona and Nevada, huge Latino population. Then you have states which are in the Sunbelt, which is Arizona and North Carolina, which folks have been categorizing as the Sunbelt, as the southern states because they have this big growing population of Latino voters. In Georgia alone, there's over a million. Last week on the podcast, you heard from Irene Godanez, who has been doing grassroots organizing in North Carolina but you just step back and look at more, the Latino vote will actually decide who's going to be in majorities in our House of Representatives and in the Senate because in Senate states, they overlap a lot with our Latino population.

In Nevada, where there's a race, Arizona, where there's a race, Pennsylvania, where there's a race, huge Puerto Rican and Dominican populations there. Then get this, there are 12 marginal congressional seats, and for all you listeners at home, that means that the marginal seat means it's just a little bit Republican or a little bit Democrat. Either party could win. It goes back and forth. Of these twelve most vulnerable seats, there are 40 of them, 40% over Latino population.

Say that slower. There's 12 seats that have over 40% Latino population, and six of those are majority Latino seats in California and a few in New York City and in the outskirts of New York that will really make the difference this year in who controls the House and the Senate.

Janae Pierre: I want to talk about political outreach here and I want to zoom in on Vermont for a moment. Chuck, you were the senior advisor for both the Bernie Sanders campaigns in 2016 and 2020, really "feeling the burn" there. You also wrote a book titled Tío Bernie: The Inside Story of How Bernie Sanders Brought Latinos into the Political Revolution. What was notable about the Sanders campaign outreach to Latinos during both of those campaigns?

Chuck Rocha: Well, thank you for mentioning my old book, since Mike got to mention his little book since his is so nice and shiny. Mine talked about three things that are the bedrock of what we did. A, start early. Me and Mike Madrid talk about every week how people wait till the last minute to talk to our community. The second piece is expand your target. Don't just talk to primary voters, talk to infrequent voters, talk to newly registered voters.

Then the third piece, and probably the most important is have a culturally competent campaign that is rooted in economic populism, that's showing up where these folks are, many of them like me, blue-collar, non-college-educated Latino men who are looking at what you're going to do to try to level the playing field so when they work harder, they do better, and when they do better, they make more money for their family, which is really what they want.

Janae Pierre: Why do you think neither Republicans or Democrats have been as successful as the Sanders campaign in replicating these strategies?

Chuck Rocha: Well, I think it's because it starts at the top. You need to have somebody there who's driving for budget priority early, and that's a hard thing to do. The second piece is I had a little bit of this built-in because Bernie Sanders had been on the same message for 30 years, well before he ever met Chuck Rocha, which made him very, very believable and also trustworthy.

There's one thing that Democrats and Republicans have in common is they're not trustworthy with voters who are younger, newer, these Latino voters, and consuming in two languages. That's what the real difference is is you had a steadfast there that had been doing this for a long time.

Janae Pierre: We received a text message from a listener who wants to know if political messaging on all sides on Spanish language radio is effectively getting through to voters and if the guests, Mike and Chuck, have thoughts about an increase in conservative messaging on Spanish radio in the last five years.

Mike Madrid: Well, I'll start there, and I know Chuck does a lot of this and this is a topic we go back and forth on a lot and frankly agree most of the time. Look, there is the age cohort of-- or, I'm sorry, the generational cohort of the recently migrated from every country. By the way, every Spanish speaking country tends to be the most conservative. These are those that bring the most religious traditions with them and again, aren't, I think, as progressive culturally, certainly as we have seen some of the pop culture elements in our current society.

You do see a rise in evangelical voters, for example, Spanish-speaking platforms and so Conservative spanish language mediums, including radio, have had an added impact for Republicans reaching out on those platforms but as I have counseled very, very clearly and very strongly, the Spanish speaking audience for Latino voters is not only small, relatively small, about 17% to 20%, it's shrinking and it's shrinking dramatically.

The rapid growth, the actual votes, or as we say in campaigns, if you want to go fishing where the fish are, it's with this 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation voter, which overwhelmingly does not speak Spanish. Even bilingual use is limited and dropping. That's the problem-- this area, this English-speaking, US born Hispanic specifically men, is where the Democrats and Biden and Harris have had a lot of trouble with.

That's where they're losing the vote, that's where efforts need to be focused on and you can literally see the differences between the Democratic and Republican campaigns now by the way, they've named their outreach efforts where Harris's Latinas or Latinos Con Harris in Spanish, and Trump's is Latino Americans, they added the Americans name in there, Latino Americans for Trump.

They're speaking to literally two very distinct demographic political groups in our community. They're both, I think, smart. I think that the Trump folks realize this is where the biggest upside potential is. The math would suggest they're right and it probably explains in large part why he has enjoyed for the past four years, relatively high historical support levels from Latinos, despite conventional wisdom suggesting it should be otherwise.

Chuck Rocha: Let me build off of what Mike is saying and do one thing, which is explain that when Mike talks about Spanish speakers saying they're 17% or 20%, that's true on what's spoken in the house and how they communicate with each other but there's a separation about this radio and some media advertising because even Latinos who speak English, who understand Spanish when they're consuming entertainment, which is a big difference because Spanish music makes them think about their grandmother.

They love the rhythms, they love the salsa. It connects them to community. They're listening at that at a higher rate. If you want to know how important Spanish radio is, I would ask any listener out there to pull up to any construction site across America. I'm not going to argue whether who is documented, who is undocumented, what country they're from, but just pull yourself up on a construction site and if they don't all have earbuds in, then there's somebody playing a radio that's blaring Spanish music.

If you ever get up early in the morning in a hotel room and you sneak down to the gym to try to work off those waffles you had yesterday, and you come back early and the maid is in your room, she's a Latina in Las Vegas, she's turned on the bedside radio onto her favorite Spanish channel because it makes her forget about the horrible job that she has to do every day. Having this cultural complex competency to understand how Spanish radio, and to Mike's point, a lot of English radio matters a lot in the way that folks are consuming.

Janae Pierre: Correct me if I'm wrong, the topics that these stations seem to lean into are misinformation around abortion, immigration, a lot of comparisons of Democratic policies to the socialist policies that some listeners are familiar with from their own countries. Talk a bit more about how influential these programs in Latino communities are.

Mike Madrid: Well, again, look, I'm going to push back on this stereotype. We've got to stop with that. The bigger problem with misinformation is in English for Latinos. It's problems on Fox News. It's those same issues being spread through misinformation in English. It is a pervasive problem on both but we've got to stop with the stereotype that we're all overwhelmingly Spanish speakers. We're not. We're not even a majority Spanish speakers.

Over two-thirds of us are consuming news and political content, the exact topics that you're talking about in English. Look, misinformation is bad everywhere and I don't want to just diminish that, that we do need to be vigilant about stamping that out but we also have to look at the math, we got to look at the data, and we've got to start talking to people where they're at and where they're at is not on Spanish mediums. And those misinformation problems are more prevalent on English. If you want to stamp out misinformation with Latino voters, start with English mediums because it's as bad or worse there.

Janae Pierre: 844-745-8255 is the number to call, or you can send us a text to get in on this conversation. We had a caller from Fort Worth, Texas, who said, "His political priority is upward mobility for the Latino community. Most people just want to raise their families and have a place to live." Gentlemen talk about just wanting basic needs in the Latino community, right?

Chuck Rocha: Well, I grew up two hours east of Fort Worth near this big town of Tyler, Texas, and I can tell you about upward mobility because I've lived it every day. I didn't ever go to college, as you can tell by the way that I speak and for all of you who can't see me, yes, I'm very much Mexican. As Mike Madrid, I just sound like an old white man when I speak. Upward mobility has been the bedrock of what I've tried to do, which is what most young men do who are like me, who had a kid when he was 19 and worked in a factory.

My whole life was driven about what can I do to provide a home for my son, healthcare for my family, and literally taking jobs so I could have a pension or a 401k. That hasn't changed 25 years later. We've just quit talking about it in the ways that old-school Democrats like Dick Gephardt and others used to talk about it, which this is the way these Latinos in Fort Worth and in working-class neighborhoods around the country still want us to be talking about it.

I think that's the biggest disconnect. You see Kamala Harris, to Mike's point, leaning into that now. I haven't seen somebody lean into a housing plan in a long time, probably since campaigns I worked in, in the '90s or early two 2000s because she has polling, I promise you, that shows this is something that's moving people because at the presidential level, you don't put a TV on the, on air that's not been tested and shown as moving people. That'd be my two cents.

Janae Pierre: This is Notes from America. I'm Janae Pierre in for Kai Wright. We'll be back in a moment with more from my guests, Mike Madrid and Chuck Rocha and more of your calls. If you want to add your voice to this conversation, give us a ring at 844-745-8255. You can also text that number, 844-745-8255. We'll be right back in a moment.

Katerina Barton: Hey, it's Katerina Barton from the show team at Notes from America with Kai Wright. Something happens to me when I listen to this show. No matter the topic or the guest, I can always think of someone I want to tell about what I just heard, and I do. If you're thinking about who in your life would enjoy this episode or another episode you've heard, please share it with them now.

The folks in your life trust your good taste and we would appreciate you spreading the word. If you really want to go above and beyond, please leave us a review. It helps more people, the ones you know and the ones you don't find the show and I'll let you get back to listening now. Thanks.

Janae Pierre: It's Notes from America. I'm Janae Pierre in for Kai Wright. Before we return to our conversation on Latino voters, a quick word about next week's show. Kai and the Notes from America team will be live from the New Jersey Performing Arts Center for a show about the political priorities of Gen-Z voters. The youngest generation of Americans eligible to vote are positioned to have a lot of political power of their own to shape our democracy.

What are they debating? How are they debating it and what is inspiring them to get politically engaged? For those of you Gen-Zers out there, we would love for you to be part of this conversation. Here are two ways if you live in or around Newark, New Jersey, come and join the show on September 29th at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center. In addition to the chance to hang with Kai, there will be a documentary film screening, on-site voter registration, and some live music.

It's free to attend, and the link to RSVP is at the Lincoln bio @noteswithkai on Instagram and wherever you are, you can participate in a pre-show focus group of Gen Z voters from across the country for this episode as well. Send us an email with the subject line Gen-Z focus group to notes@wnyc.org for more information. All right, so let's return to our look at the political power of Latino voters in 2024.

I'm joined by Mike Madrid and Chuck Rocha and they're co-hosts of the Latino Vote podcast available of course wherever you get your podcast. Now, I want to jump in to talk about race and gender within the Latino community. Is there a distinction between Afro-Latino and Anglo-Latino and what people care about same gender? No, Chuck, you have to leave us. So I'd love to get your response here.

Chuck Rocha: What you're talking about are micro-universes within a larger group of people, and normally we don't get that segmented. We can do that in focus groups and we have, but overall, and at least my experience, Mike will have a lot more real-life experience with the polling part of this, but you don't see that much difference overall when you start looking at this because there's just not big enough mass in enough states.

You'll really see that more in Pennsylvania, probably anywhere because of this large Dominican population that's in Allentown and Bethlehem but you really only see it in focus groups when you really start digging down and they're such a small part of the electorate. They're still very important, but not that big enough to see a standalone sample size. And thanks again for having me.

Janae Pierre: Thanks for joining us, Chuck, and we appreciate your time. Mike, would you like to respond?

Mike Madrid: Yes, just to say, I mean, look, what Chuck brings out this very important point is a lot of the regional variations on race, obviously, specifically, are more particular to areas that are closer to the Caribbean, to Central and South America. I think one really fantastic person who's emerged on the scene is Maxwell Frost. Who's this Gen-Z Afro-Latino Cuban who was defying basically every stereotype we had about Cuban voters there in Florida.

I think that's a really fantastic, long overdue discussion, and I think he's going to be an emergent part of this new generational understanding of who Latinos and what Latinidad is. Women are very different. There's a really fascinating body of work, I think, to be uncovered here. Latinos have had the largest gender gap of any race or ethnicity. It is our men that are increasingly voting Republican, specifically US born.

Our women increasingly are voting with Democrats. Both of those are strong, assimilative features where they're voting less with an ethnic or racial anchor and more along what we call the diploma divide. In the Latino community, our women are going to college at rates faster than our men are, to a greater degree than any other race or ethnicity, by about seven percentage points, which happens to be the exact same number as the gender gap in our voting.

Women and men seem to be moving in divergent directions but one of the commonalities I think that is really fascinating is the Latino voter tends to vote for women and female candidates at rates higher, again, than any other race or ethnicity. And really, this, I think, dispels some of that stereotype of that misconception about the machismo Latino culture. We are a very maternally focused and centered culture. Undeniably, the [Latino language] is our national symbol in Mexico.

Every Latin American country has their own version of a Marian symbol, not just for religious purposes, but for nationality. She is a political symbol. It's very, very distinct and different than what you see throughout Western Europe, where it tends to be-- well, here in the United States, we have Uncle Sam, who's kind of this old white guy with a white goatee and--

Janae Pierre: A really big head. [laughs]

Mike Madrid: Big top hat, red, white and blue outfit. I say that only because those are different cultural conceptions of who we are. I argue in the book, the Latinization of America is going to lead to a feminization of America insofar as a lot of our policymakers, more college graduates means more people in management, more CEO's, more academic leaders, more lawyers, more doctors, more structural leaders, and leaders of our institutions will be women, Latinas and that's going to change the perception and identity of who Americans view themselves to be.

Janae Pierre: I have a follow-up to that, but we want to get to a couple of calls. Romero in Atlanta, Georgia. Romero, welcome to the show.

Romero: Hey, thank you for having me, guys.

Janae Pierre: Sure. You have a question for our guest?

Romero: Well, a comment and a question, but I could just follow up with a comment real quick. I think the biggest thing for Latinos, in my opinion, I'm a 26-year-old, identify myself as a progressive conservative but my question-- my comment is I think the biggest key issues to address with this election should be, of course, immigration reform, economic opportunities, health care access and education and workers rights.

I say that because I'm a small business owner and I've had a lot of issues being able to access the capital. I think if we can level the playing field and be able to access opportunities as other race have in America, I think we could really begin to move the needle and have that opportunity economy that Harris is promoting. I am getting behind Harris this election because I come from a single-parent household who-- my mother did everything she could to put food on the table, a roof over my ahead and even got me to through college.

I didn't finish college because of the cost of college, got too expensive, so I had to drop out and I began my journey as my own small business. With that being said, I have a question now--

Janae Pierre: Before you pose your question Romero, can you turn your radio down in the background, please and then you can go ahead.

Romero: Sorry.

Janae Pierre: No worries.

Romero: Okay. It's been really difficult to access capital, especially, especially as a small business owner. I get a lot of no's, a lot of banks shove me out. I feel like just as soon as I walk through the door, it's almost like I already have a label over me and it's very hard, very discouraging. What policies or changes do you think are the most important or improving opportunities in equality for Latinos and how can we better address issues of racial and economic justice within the community?

Mike Madrid: That's a great question and your story is very typical, I think, of what the community is experiencing so I appreciate you fleshing that out, both as a child of immigrants and a struggling business owner and somebody who couldn't afford college. It's like it's all there. That's exactly what we're struggling with as a community. The challenge is, again, most of our elected officials don't really frame or focus their policy agendas on that, but Harris is.

She's doing it a couple of different ways. The first and foremost one is, again, this aggressive Marshall plan for housing that she has launched is truly extraordinary. She's speaking, as I mentioned earlier, not just to the construction side of that, where so many of our men are specifically working in the construction space, but so many of us as younger-- a younger demographic are in that first home buying space.

Homeownership is central to building wealth, it's central to an aspirational middle class, and she's addressing that first and foremost. The second is she's really got this novel idea, and maybe it's not that novel, but it's novel to hear it coming from the Democratic party making a pivot, and that is this $50,000 tax credit for small business owners under what she calls an opportunity economy.

Look, this has very strong echoes of opportunity zones that Barack Obama began to use, which were in his admittedly exact replica and copy of Jack Kemp, Republican Jack Kemp, housing urban development director, using the same language, the same policies to start getting people of color and working-class people into owning businesses, into owning homes. This is very-- they're not faint whispers. These are very strong overtones of republican messaging from the 1980s and the 1990s.

We're witnessing something extraordinary as we're seeing Democrats getting back into speaking to an aspiration middle-class voter that is looking upward economically, first and foremost and she's got a very detailed agenda to be doing it, and it is working.

Janae Pierre: I want to go to Michael Gomez calling from California. Michael wants to hear more about the religion influence on the voting bloc. Michael, welcome to the show.

Michael Gomez: Thank you so much. And since you're talking about agenda and in the Latino culture, me being a Latino myself and having all my life lived in Los Angeles, I've noticed something in the culture, and they are very, very worried about character. A lot of the older Latinos and a lot of the middle-class Latinos where it is, it's a macho culture I know I grew up in it, tends to be very, very, well, maybe not too homophobic, but they're very questionable about LGBTQ and they're also very, very, very, very anti-choice.

I'd like to say anti-choice instead of, "pro-life". The Matismo culture-- The latino men have a problem with abortion, and they have a problem with being pro-choice on it. A lot of them think a lot like the evangelicals and say, if we vote for Trump, at least we've got moral and character and values coming to the world instead of these communist atheist liberals like Kamala Harris. Many-- much of the Latino culture, I hate to say it, I love them. I come from them, think that way. They think a lot like the evangelicals that vote for Trump.

Janae Pierre: Thank you for your call, Michael. Mike?

Mike Madrid: It's a good opportunity, a good learning moment. All of that is quantifiably untrue. Let me dispel all of that. First, you have Mexico, which is the largest Catholic Latino country in the world, which legalized gay marriage long before the United States did and where abortion rights have been preserved, protected federally for a long time, and aren't under the same attack as they are here in the United States.

Moreover, they just elected a woman to be President before we did. That's the first thing. The second thing is, in the 1980s, about 80% of Latinos in this country were Catholic. That number is down to less than 50% now. There is a rise in evangelical Christianity but for every one Latino that becomes evangelical to Latinos, leave religion altogether. This has always been a pro-choice vote.

That is quantifiably, verifiably untrue, and it is becoming more of a pro-choice vote. Saying this as a Republican who's worked in these communities and as a Latino myself who's lived in these communities my entire life, those are very dangerous misconceptions about who we are. None of them are true and we're learning more and more about this as more and more research experts and pollsters verify all of this data over the past three decades.

Janae Pierre: We have a text, Mike. The question is, how are the candidates speaking to the professional Latinas who are increasingly becoming the retirement plan for their parents and the college fund for their children, and yet remain large, largely ignored in the economics conversation?

Mike Madrid: Boy, what a brilliant question. That is truly a brilliant question because as the questioner asks quite accurately, Latinas are going to very quickly start surpassing male numbers in terms of earning power as they have more upward mobility because of their college degrees. That is going to dramatically reshape the Latino family over the course of the next 15 to 20 years, and increasingly, they will be relied upon as the retirement plan for their families.

Again, brilliant question. The truth of the matter is, there has not been a policy put forth by either party but you will hear it. As long as people keep asking the question, the politicians will start responding to that very specific, very insightful question because we can't sustainably allow that to persist for very long, especially as Social Security weakens. I think it is the height of irony, incidentally, that the only thing that can keep Social Security solvent is more migration.

We need a lot more immigrants to come in and start paying at the bottom rung of that financial pyramid to pay for the retirement plans for all of these boomers but the idea that we're talking about Latinos and retirement, I think is smart. I think it has a lot of foresight. It's a little bit ahead of its time as it relates to Latinas and Latinos broadly, but a very, very insightful.

Janae Pierre: Mike, as we wrap up this show, time flies, I guess, when you're having fun. We're looking forward to next week's show, where we will talk to some Gen Z voters and my last question here is what are the generational differences between Latinos? How does age and when someone came to America impact their vote?

Mike Madrid: Boy, that's the million-dollar question and the one thing I think that's perfect to wrap up on because what I do want all of your listeners to understand is that when we say Latinos are not monolithic, yes, we can point to different countries of origin. Yes, we can point to different regions. Those do matter but overwhelmingly, the single largest demarcation point of different political views is the different generational cohorts.

The changing nature of Latino and Latina identity are directly reflective of those generations. Gen Z is particularly important because it's the largest by far, and it is also broadly the most diverse as an American generation. This is also where we are starting to see a lot of populism on both the left and the right. The two American politicians who dramatically exceeded both conventional wisdom and polling results amongst Latino voters were Donald Trump, which we talk about a lot, but also Bernie Sanders.

That type of anti-party, anti-establishment rhetoric is really finding a home with young voters of color who do not see themselves reflected in government, they do not see their issues being represented, and they're beginning to respond that way by leaving the Democratic Party, by supporting more populist candidates, and by rejecting the extremist elements of the Republicans. All of this is transforming democracy. I appreciated the conversation and thank you so much for having me.

Janae Pierre: Wow, such an insightful conversation. Thank you so much to Chuck Rocha and Mike Madrid. They're political consultants and co-hosts of the Latino Vote podcast. Mike is also the author of the new book, The Latino Century: How America's Largest Minority is Transforming Democracy. Notes from America is a production of WNYC Studios. This episode was produced by Siona Petros. Our theme music and sound design is by Jared Paul.

Matthew Miranda was at the board for the live show. Our team also includes Katarina Barton, Regina Dehir, Karen Frillman, Suzanne Gabber, and Lindsey Foster Thomas. I'm Janae Pierre. Remember Kai Wright returns to the radio next week with a live conversation about Gen Z voters and the 2024 election, live from Newark, New Jersey. If you're in the area and interested in attending the show at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center, find more information @noteswithkai on Instagram. Thanks for listening.

 

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.