[music]

Coordinator: This is The Takeaway with Melissa Harris-Perry from WNYC and PRX in collaboration with GBH News in Boston.

[music]

Melissa: We've been covering Jackson Mississippi's water crisis since August when flooding overwhelmed the city's main water treatment plant and left residents with weeks of water shortages. Then over the Christmas weekend, a cold front that hit the south froze and burst pipes in Jackson's already troubled water system. Thousands of residents woke up to a boiled water notice and low water pressure on Christmas Day. Jackson Mayor Chokwe Lumumba spoke at a press conference two days after Christmas.

Chokwe: We have heard from residents who have not had water for days. I've spoken to residents whose families have been in town for the holidays, who were scrambling to fix Christmas dinner with little to no water. I've spoken to residents who are tired of this being the norm in the city of Jackson. I've spoken to residents who are tired of apologies. We too are tired.

Melissa: Last week when students in Jackson's school district were set to return after the winter break, the district was forced to move to virtual learning for two days because of continued low water pressure across the city. Although the citywide boil water notice was lifted over this weekend, the city still faces an uphill battle with its crumbling water infrastructure, but they are getting some outside resources.

In November, the city of Jackson and the Mississippi Department of Health agreed to federal oversight of the water system by a third-party administrator appointed by the US Department of Justice and the US EPA. The city is also set to receive almost 800 million in federal funding to help fix its water system. Joining me now is Lacey Alexander, a reporter at Mississippi Public Broadcasting in Jackson, Mississippi. Lacey, thanks for being here.

Lacey: Yes, thank you for having me.

Melissa: Okay, so the boil water notice has been lifted. What's the situation like right now?

Lacey: Yes, the boil water notice has been lifted. Our Jackson Public Schools are back in session. However, as early as yesterday afternoon, we're already getting other small boil water notices for streets in part of the city so still an uphill battle. We've still got a lot of stuff going on. By no means are things resolved, but the citywide boil water notice that was in place due to the freezing temperatures is gone.

Melissa: Talk to me about Christmas. What were residents experiencing?

Lacey: Yes, there were some families without any water at all, some with very low water pressure. I believe one lady was quoted in one outlet saying that some water's better than no water at all, but it barely trickles so our residents were seeing varying levels of lack of access to water. The mayor warned residents and press briefings that issues with the city's water system were "unavoidable."

The freezing temperatures caused multiple leaks that crews were on the ground searching for days. It was just a little bit of trial and error until they found the leaks that were really causing the problems.

Melissa: Talk to me about that language of unavoidable. Unavoidable because of the fragility of the system.

Lacey: Yes. We have been told pretty bluntly by our officials that our water system stays vulnerable, it's very antiquated. We've got very small piping that when great weather things happen like this, that problems are going to come and go. We are basically prepared for any kind of water issue all the time. This is going to be an issue until it's fully fixed.

Melissa: Will this outside assistance, particularly the federal dollars, get it to a fully fixed state?

Lacey: Yes, no the spending bill passed by US Congress allocated 600 million then of course, funding from other entities will bring the total to 800 million. Officials have stated pretty bluntly that plans and priorities for how that money is spent is still being finalized. Both Lumumba and Hannifin have said that this is not going to be nearly enough money to fix the entire problem.

I think when the Mayor talked to the feds at the very beginning of this process, when he first went up to Washington, he laid out a plan that was going to ask for nearly $2 million. The system's going to take years to fix, and so 2 billion across years, that's not exactly what we're getting here, but Lumumba and Hannifin have been emphasizing the antiquated small diameter piping causing most of the issues. It's safe to assume that starting work on that is a big part of the conversation behind closed doors right now.

Melissa: Okay. Mississippi like many southern states is in that situation where you have a democratic leader in your major city, but Republican leadership at the statewide level, do those politics come into play at all here?

Lacey: I think they did for a little bit. I think Mayor Lumumba and our Governor Tate Reeves have exchanged words in some capacity or another. So it is a little bit of performative politics between the two but I think that things have gone on for so long and things are just getting worse and worse and worse that a lot of that has been fallen to the wayside basically.

Melissa: We've talked at least a little bit about what it means for families, for kids in school, or who rather are not in school. Talk to me about what it means for agriculture and for business.

Lacey: Yes. It means that if businesses can't trust running water to flow through at a consistent place then they probably can't have a sustainable business here. We get news of restaurants closing in the Jackson area all the time. A big fond restaurant just closed and that made news here because it's been around for so long but restaurants, especially food businesses especially, are really feeling the pain of not having consistent water flow, and not being able to prepare, and not knowing when those water problems are going to arise again.

They just know that they eventually are, but when those boil water notices come to effect, it would be nice if we had a calendar of what parts of Jackson we're going to struggle at what times, but we don't, we just know that it's eventually going to happen. There is no way, I imagine for businesses to fully prepare themselves for this water problem.

Melissa: When kids are in virtual learning but you have this water problem across the city. I guess I'm wondering are they in any better circumstance at home without running water.

Lacey: I think it depends on where they are and for a lot of kids the answer is no. They don't have running water at school. They don't have running water at home, but when they try and power through at the school and have in-person learning regardless of the water situation, then that causes a lot of distractions for learning. Then you see bathroom breaks taking forever, then you see hygiene problems. We see a lot of sickness going around because kids can't wash their hands and so it's really a lose-lose situation during times like these for our school boards.

Melissa: Okay. Stick with us. We're going to take a quick pause more on Jackson Mississippi's water when we return.

[music]

It's The Takeaway and I'm Melissa Harris-Perry. We're talking with Lacey Alexander, a reporter at Mississippi Public Broadcasting, and we're talking about the ongoing water issues in Jackson, Mississippi. Now, Lacey, the NAACP filed a discrimination complaint against Mississippi State Agencies. Can you talk to me about that suit and what you're expecting to come out of that?

Lacey: Yes, the biggest update that we've heard on that, of course, it was on the AP wire, was that agency responding and saying that the NAACP didn't present any hard evidence that that actually took place. This will certainly be an ongoing conversation and the NAACP will likely respond and say, "Well, here is our evidence," just as most legal cases do. It'll have to be a little bit of back and forth before anything's actually resolved from it.

Melissa: Are there patterns where those who live in greater poverty or those who live in predominantly African-American communities in Jackson, which is a predominantly black city, are more affected by these water problems?

Lacey: Yes, I would say that South Jackson has hit the hardest in times like these. We see a lot of activism going around in the city about the water issue, and a lot of those residents are from South Jackson communities. Those seem to be the areas that get hit the hardest and hit the most and whenever things, like you said, were really resolved except we were at an uphill battle, the South Jackson communities are typically the ones that are still struggling a little bit.

I remember there was a rally by an activism group a few months ago where supposedly the water system was fixed for now, but they were still putting bottles of dirty water on the City Hall steps just to indicate that no things are not good and a lot of those people participating were South Jackson residents. That is and can be seen as being an inadvertently targeted area, unfortunately, but we do see that those South Jackson communities do get hit the hardest in times like these.

Melissa: When you talk about bottles of dirty water, it's a reminder, we're not just talking about water pressure here. What is it that's actually coming out of the tap?

Lacey: Yes, it can be just dirty, unusable water. Sometimes those boil water notices are entirely precautionary. It's just something that government is asking you to do because the water pressure is so low and you never know but sometimes it is visually dirty. In our offices up in North Jackson, we see that our water in the bathroom is not necessarily a hundred percent cleaner, a hundred percent clear. Sometimes it's visually noticeable and sometimes it isn't.

Melissa: Last November, US Department of Justice and EPA ordered this third-party manager to oversee the water system. I'm wondering if that third-party manager is being welcomed by city leadership and residents, or seen as an overstep.

Lacey: Ted Hennepin has made himself very present and very visual when the mayor holds these press briefings, Mr. Hennepin is often present. He often gives a few words, and he's also a really great person to have to really speak on the technical aspects of this problem. If a reporter were to ask the mayor about the specifics of the water plant or the specifics of the piping, Mr. Hennepin can step in and really elaborate on that. The general attitude towards him I think is -- to be honest I don't think we will see the fruits of Mr. Hennepin's labor anytime soon, just because this is going to take such a long time.

At the absolute least, he was appointed by the US Department of Justice. He is if nothing else a metaphor for the feds are listening, the federal government is involved and the higher levels in Washington are paying attention.

Melissa: Do you live in Jackson?

Lacey: I do. I work in the actual Hinds County of Jackson, and then I live in Madison County.

Melissa: Do you drink the water?

Lacey: When we are at work, we are given bottled water, jug water, basically for our cooler. We don't drink that water, but we do use it every day to use the restroom and wash our hands. Madison County is not as affected as Hinds County is so I still feel safe to drink the water in Madison County.

Melissa: Lacey Alexander is a reporter at Mississippi Public Broadcasting in Jackson. Lacey, thanks so much for joining us.

Lacey: Thank you.

[music]

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.