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Kai Wright: It's Notes from America. I'm Kai Wright. Actor and producer Omar Epps has starred in some foundational films in the canon of Black cinema. His breakout role in 1992's Juice alongside Tupac Shakur was part of this remarkable moment in which hip hop began migrating to the big screen. Then his leading man role in Love & Basketball about a decade later, that was a landmark performance for a whole new generation. Now, while he is still, of course, making movies and TV shows, he's got a project that is explicitly about touching yet another generation of young people.

He's co-authored a young adult book with writer Clarence A. Haynes, that he hopes will inspire today's youth in their fight against climate change. The book is called Nubia: The Awakening. It's set in a futuristic New York that has been ravaged by climate disaster and divided by wealth and technology, but in which a group of young climate refugees learn they may have the secret powers that could change everything. I spoke with Omar Epps recently about the book and about his whole career as an artist. Omar Epps, thank you so much for taking time to join us on the show today.

Omar Epps: Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here, even though it's virtual.

Kai Wright: This is the world in which we live now. As I understand it, this book has been on your heart for a long time. What sparked your interest in this story?

Omar Epps: I've had the idea for over a decade. I wrote a memoir a few years back called From Fatherless to Fatherhood. I was doing a book fest in Jacob Javits in New York, and I saw hundreds of kids literally running to this one booth for a particular author. The people that I was with, I was like, "What's going on?" Because first of all, I was like, "Oh, kids still read?" They were, "Yes." I was like, "Man, that's great, but who's that person?" They was like, "Oh, you know this young adult sci-fi rock star?" I was like, "Oh."

The light bulb goes off like, "Hey, man, you've been sitting on this concept for a while. You need to activate on it." That's when I started working on it. Took us about three and a half years to write the actual book, me and my co-author. I call him my co-pilot, Clarence A. Haynes. I didn't know what I was getting into, but it was a beautiful process actually. I learned a lot and so I'm thankful.

Kai Wright: Had you thought about young adult writing before? I had the pleasure of talking to young adult author Jason Reynolds earlier this year, speaking of rock stars in this genre and asking him about, why that audience? What drew you to this audience? What made you want to write for young adults?

Omar Epps: Honestly, I don't work in that way. I just had an idea. The kernel started from, listen, we live in a very tumultuous world. One day I was sitting with myself and I was thinking to myself, what if love was actually illegal, and then was reborn through a 14-year-old who is love and doesn't know he's love? That's where it all sprouted from.

Kai Wright: The future that you have imagined in this book has a few different worlds in it. New York City, it's divided into these places, and there's a place called Up High, which in the book you describe it. You write, "Up High, rain was a steady melody to fall asleep to, not the stuff of nightmares." What is Up High? Describe that to people.

Omar Epps: New York is the other character in the book. It had to be in New York because that's where I'm born and raised. I know the geography like the back of my hand. In what people would know as Lower Manhattan, that's basically underwater. We call it the swamps. That's where the Nubians and people like that are. The Up High is more uptown, and it's a floating city. That's where technology has fused with human beings. It's not just about the rich, it's about the high version of technology in 2098 is there. Just showing that juxtaposition. Ultimately, the core of the book is, I really want the readers to walk away with the sense of unity, the true meaning of that, unity in action, and the sense of hope.

Kai Wright: I can't have you here and not ask you also about your long career. You have spent decades as a household name because of your film work. What made you want to go into acting when you were a kid, because you started young?

Omar Epps: Yes, I did. Hey, man, it all came from writing, to be honest with you. When I was a kid, I used to write poems, short stories, I used to write raps, and all of that. Acting became like an extension of that expression. I found a rhythm in that. For me, it's like writing Nubia: The Awakening is like coming full circle. It's a completely new endeavor. You got to have the discipline, the time, the respect of the craft to do it.

I always lean into what I feel because this, essentially, it isn't about me. It's about the younger generations that hopefully I'm leaving a breadcrumb trail for them to prosper in a productive way with one another. Kids of all races, by the way. You know what I mean? I had to speak specifically from the lens that I know, but as I said before, ultimately, there's only one race. It's the human race.

Kai Wright: I hear you, but I do have to tell you, at the same time, to those of us who are Black, you have been an important figure in the specificity of your blackness on screen.

Omar Epps: Thank you.

Kai Wright: Your breakout role in 1992 Juice will be deeply familiar to many people. I was a teenager at the time.

Omar Epps: Don't age us.

Kai Wright: [laughs] I think a lot about that moment. Juice was one of several films at that time. Boyz N the Hood.

Omar Epps: Boyz N the Hood.

Kai Wright: Jack City.

Omar Epps: New Jack City.

Kai Wright: Menace II Society.

Omar Epps: Menace II Society.

Kai Wright: That were depicting this experience that young Black men were having. I wonder if you could just put your cultural critic hat on for a minute and tell me, as somebody who was part of that moment in our history, what was going on about all of those films at that time? What were they telling us about ourselves?

Omar Epps: That's a great question. That's a great, great question. It was a time of being unapologetically Black, who we are. These are our experiences. Now we get to have fictional depictions of what our experience really is. Also, it was like the second incarnation of hip hop in terms of the business. That plays a very big part because this culture that we created is now becoming a multi-billion dollar business at that time.

It was a time of unity. It was a very powerful time. Sure, you're going to have some people that don't get along or whatever, but it wasn't like that. It was like everybody had love for one another. Everybody was supporting one another. Everybody. You know what I mean? It really was a time for unity because it was something that we, as a culture, had never experienced on that scale. The level of artistry that was being done was phenomenal.

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Kai Wright: While he was talking about this era, Omar started thinking about other cultural moments on big and small screen that shaped his sense of self. He went somewhere I didn't quite expect because it's a show that could not be less hip hop, The Cosby Show, and its particular depiction of Black family.

Omar Epps: As a little kid who grew up without his father, I've only met my father one time in my life, literally. Watching that show, I was like, "Huh, that can happen?" Like, "He's a doctor, she's a lawyer, and there's always food on the table. Everybody's laughing. I want that power of imagery." This is what I'm trying to create with Nubia: The Awakening. I'm aware of the responsibility that comes with it and I'm prepared for it as well.

Kai Wright: When you're talking about the power of imagery, then, of course, I have to ask you about Love & Basketball because, for a whole 'nother generation of people, that was a film that was, here's a story about affluent Black people loving. A love story that's this sweet thing where race and racism and all that was almost struggle, wasn't really part of it.

Omar Epps: Listen, shout out to Gina, who wrote and directed that. It was the first film. It's a beautiful story because it's a fairy tale. I think that what keeps permeating through the years about that story is the functionality of love. What's so great about that story is the whole setup is like, "Oh, this man and this woman grew up together." They know each other, but on a friendship type of thing. They're actually friends. When they start to go through their adolescence and start dating and all of these things, it's happening without judgement because they know each other. They're next-door neighbors their whole life.

By the time they get to looking in the mirror at each other like, "Oh, maybe it's you. Oh, maybe it's you," it takes off in a different direction. The thing that made me want to do that movie for myself from a creative standpoint was the ending. I thought that was so profound to me back then in terms of, both of these characters were aspiring athletes, and this, that, and the other, and the guy didn't make it, but the woman did. That just stuck out to me and it stuck with me, and I was like, "Yes, I want to do this." I just thought it was so layered and had so many dimensions to it that we just hadn't seen before, especially in Black cinema, but in cinema in general. I'm really thankful to have been a part of that.

Kai Wright: Is there something that does guide you from writing books, to producing, to acting? Is there something that is guiding you in terms of how you make choices about, "That's for me. That's what I want to do?"

Omar Epps: Absolutely. It's my purpose, man. The reason why Nubia: The Awakening is so special to me because I know that I'm not going to be here forever. I know that. I have children. One day I'm going to have grandchildren. Hopefully, one day I have great-grandchildren, but what am I leaving behind? Not material, not money. What am I actually leaving behind that they could take and it can help nurture them to say, "Hey, my great-great-grandpops did X, Y, and Z." Not just me personally, but to the kids abroad, to the generations abroad. "Hey, I was inspired by this thing, this piece of art that helped me get through a tough time," or it helped me learn, or it helped me want to learn something that can help me better myself because I'm giving back the same things that were given to me.

When I saw Sidney Poitier on screen when I was kid, I was like, "That was my first Black superhero. Who is this elegant, handsome, powerful-- What's going on? I've never seen nothing like that before." I'm watching this stuff and I'm enamored. I'm like, "Wait, he brown skin. We could do that?" You know what I mean? I didn't even know that. I have to fulfill-- Part of my purpose is to continue that cycle for the generations to come because they going to take it and go further.

When I say that, I'm saying you look at a Ryan Coogler, you look at a Ava DuVernay, you look at a Lena Waithe. The list goes on and on and on. Each one, teach one. I embrace that. I just hope that I have been a part of that, and I hope that I continue to be a part of that cycle.

Kai Wright: To bring us back to hip hop for a minute, you've been in that world your whole career. Not just as an actor, but as a rapper, as a producer. You were part of a big hit video game series from Def Jam. What do you think about the culture in the industry today?

Omar Epps: I think that hip hop is exactly where it's supposed to be right now. Hip hop is the dominant music on earth. It's pop music, if you want to use that phrase. We use hip hop. As a culture, the young ones need to understand how many individuals and how many families hip hop has saved, how many jobs have been created. If you ever did a chart of that, it would be unbelievable in terms of demand.

Kai Wright: Just in the industry.

Omar Epps: Just in the hip hop industry, how many jobs were created for people, how many people were able to come out of different circumstances and elevate. One of these things about life that's real interesting is like, sometimes people are victims of circumstance. They are born into certain situations, certain environments, but these are some of the most brilliant minds in the world. Like, "Man, he was born over here and went to Yale or Wharton Business School. This guy could've been Elon Musk." You know what I mean? He just was born in the hood, in the projects, or something like that. That's just the reality of life.

I say that to say that in between has been hip hop. You can learn a format and also utilize your natural gifts to ascend. Whether it's in production, whether it's in management, in the executive level. We see that time after time after time. That's why I say hip hop is exactly where it's supposed to be. I'm proud of our culture. We will preserve it. I am hip hop, and it's forever going to be important to me because it's how, as Black and brown people, we've been able to preserve the essence of our culture.

I'm excited for this younger generation because these kids are so smart. They'll have their own place and missteps and stuff. They're kids, but the younger generation is walking with a different type of weight. One of the things I touched on in Nubia: The Awakening is not climate change, like climate crisis. It's already happened, and so how do live then? I think that there's a generation now that is literally thinking about that. The kids who know that one day I'm going to have kids and have a family, like, "What's going on? We need to change this." Those are the kids I'm talking about, and those are the kids I'm excited about.

Kai Wright: Before I let you go, you're part of a highly anticipated upcoming project from Lee Daniels, The Deliverance, with Glenn Close coming out on Netflix. Can you tell us anything about what to expect?

Omar Epps: Yes, absolutely. It's a phenomenal project. Shout-out to Lee Daniels, by the way. It's so funny how it happened because we've been running into each other for a few years and we always, "Hey, man. We got to work." He made that call. To get a chance to work with someone like Glenn Close is amazing. This is a film that's going to knock you off your feet. If you was into that film, Get out, shout-out to Jordan Peele, then this is going to be the one for you. It's different. [laughs]

Kai Wright: Actor and producer Omar Epps is the co-author with writer Clarence Haynes of a new young adult book titled Nubia: The Awakening. It's the first installment in a saga from Random House Children's Books. Thanks for this time, Omar.

Omar Epps: Thank you. I appreciate you. Thank you.

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Kai Wright: Notes from America is a production of WNYC Studios. You can follow us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can also follow us on both Instagram and Twitter @noteswithkai. Music and mixing by Jared Paul. Production, reporting and editing by Karen Frillmann, Vanessa Handy, Regina de Heer, Rahima Nasa, Kousha Navidar, Lindsay Foster Thomas, and me, Kai Wright. Thanks for spending this time with us, and I will talk to you next week.

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