[music]

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: You're back with The Takeaway. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry. We're taking our library talk to TikTok. Now, librarians across the country are using TikTok to amplify their local libraries and encourage people of all ages to read. Whether they're demonstrating how to walk into your local library with swagger,-

Big Boss Vette: Mirror

All the pretty girls walk like

This, this, this, this, this

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: -or posing like the capybaras on children's books,-

Singer: Capybara

Capybara, capybara, capybara, capybara

Capybara

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: -or showing off their big print books for those of us with older eyes, to the tune of Sza.

Sza: It’s cuffing season

And all the girls are leaving to get

A big boy

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: They're having fun while doing it.

Rhea Gardner: Yes, it is library talk, librarian talk, libraries of TikTok.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: This is Rhea Gardner, a supervising librarian at Solano County Library.

Rhea Gardner: Solano County, if you don't know, it's in Northern California, right in between Sacramento and San Francisco. It's really, really diverse, and just a lovely community. I love working for Solano County. I grew up in Solano County.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: Rhea is one of the folks responsible for her library's TikTok account. Here's one of her partners.

Mychal Threets: I used to work in our library's marketing department, they saw my personal use of TikTok, and kept on trying to convince me to do it for Solano County Library.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: That's Mychal Threets. He's also a supervising librarian at Solano County Library.

Mychal Threets: I grew up in Solano County Library. I got my first library card at the library where I supervise now, but I never grew up having a male librarian. There were no Black librarians, let alone male Black librarians, so it's super cool that there are now people of all colors who are becoming librarians. We're getting younger and younger. There's nothing wrong with being an older, seasoned librarian, but it's so cool that we have so many young people.

That way, we can encourage other young people that being a librarian is cool for them. Whenever I take off my cardigan, people can see that I'm covered in tattoos. Some people have bright neon hair. Everyone's different. It's really cool to be a librarian and show people of all ages, of all looks, that the library world is for them.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: To round out our look at this library world, we're bringing in Lisa Varga, the executive director of the Virginia Library Association. Now, Lisa, we heard Mychal say that librarians on TikTok, they show that library's about books, but also the library is about more than books. What more are libraries about?

Lisa Varga: Oh gosh, that's a great question. We aren't just about books. Libraries feed off of our communities, we provide resources that reflect those communities, and we also evolve with time. One of the things I was chatting with someone about the other day is, we provide, maybe, accounts to electronic music these days, whereas we started with records, cassette tapes, and CDs. Now, also, when you talk about movies, we were doing VHS tapes to DVDs, and now letting people use streaming services through their libraries.

I think one of the things that's been really amazing as a TikTok lurker, not a TikTok creator, is seeing the volume of people that are library users. I'll even call some of them library evangelists, that are creating content for us and about us, that we could have never anticipated when TikTok was started.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: Lisa, in Virginia, state computers can't even have TikTok installed, is that right?

Lisa Varga: That is correct. Our governor passed a resolution, back in December, saying that certain services were not permitted on state computers, so we don't necessarily have a lot of library TikTok accounts in Virginia, as we've seen in other states.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: Do you see, though, value in-- Obviously, TikTok is one of multiple social media platforms. Is there a way that-- Whether it's Facebook, or IG, any of these spaces, where librarians themselves can be the creators. Do you find that useful in communicating with and reaching parts of your community? Does social media help?

Lisa Varga: Absolutely. We've watched that. I'm one of those seasoned librarians that Mychal was mentioning, [laughs] and I've seen a variety of media and social media come through the library hemisphere, in the last 25 years. We have different audiences on each platform, that allow us to create content geared toward those folks. Whereas IG, for a long time, may have just been an image advertising a program, now, it can have more of a reels prospect, where you have some action going on.

I think TikTok is really unique, that library TikTokers and creators are able to take advantage of trends that occur on TikTok, to then market services that might not have been as part of our ordinary plan. Because the user-generated content is so enthusiastic about certain threads and themes, we're able to jump in, be more nimble, and showcase some of the things that we want to let people know about.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: Rhea, give me an example of that. Tell me a library TikTok that was able to take advantage of a TikTok trend to really amplify something of importance.

Rhea Gardner: I think the point of our TikToks is to touch on the important subjects that are happening, like with the book bands that are going on. Mychal showcased diverse books. There's one TikTok Trend-- Mychal, jump in. [laughs]

Mychal Threets: Yes, I know which one Rhea is talking about. I don't remember how to describe it in a way that would make sense, but I think a really cool one that we did, that was for a trend, was the Tariq the Corn Kid, the "It's corn." When that was going viral everywhere, we did a TikTok, in Vallejo, in that one, just highlighting different books, for every time he said, "It's corn," we were like, "It's video games, it's musical instruments."

We even got some of the local students from that library to join us. Whenever we do the trends, Rhea and I just try to be as cringey as possible, but sometimes we'll be doing these trends in the libraries, then local kids will be laughing at us, as they see adult librarians trying to make TikToks.

Rhea Gardner: Yes, we love it, though. That's like the whole point, is just not taking ourselves too seriously.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: I also love the idea that being cringe is the point. Playing around with this idea of how are librarians reflected in media. It's always the bun, the glasses, saying, "Shh, shh, shh," and here you all are, dancing and being silly in the library.

Lisa Varga: One of the things, I think, that makes Rhea, Mychal, so appealing, is their authenticity. I think TikTokers or TikTok commenters are really quick to point out people that they think are not authentic, they won't follow you, and they'll swipe right by you. When you have an authentic and consistent voice, it draws people in. They may see you for the first time and then spend 10 to 15 minutes doing a deep dive on all of your videos. Having that content there and accessible immediately is really vital to the experience.

[music]

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: All right, put a bookmark right here. More on The Takeaway, right after this.

[music]

Welcome back to The Takeaway. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry. We're talking with three librarians about the many ways that libraries have adapted to continue to serve their communities, including by using TikTok. Now, if there's any time that libraries are adapting to challenges, it's now. In just the past few weeks, libraries from Indiana, to New York, to Tennessee, have received threats of violence. Why? Because on their shelves are books with LGBTQ+ or racial themes and content.

Speaker: The Hendersonville Library has been under scrutiny for weeks in conservative media, after the actor Kirk Cameron claimed library staff was rude before and during his story hour event. Then, on Tuesday, library staff got multiple emails talking about death and blowing up the building.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: Lawmakers in Idaho recently introduced a bill that would allow parents to sue libraries over books they disagree with, and Indiana lawmakers filed an amendment that would create a legal process to challenge books at schools and public libraries. Representative Jake Teshka spoke in support of this policy.

Jake Teshka: When I drop my son off at school and he goes into a school library, I don't know what is there. It takes away my opportunity as a parent to be able to see what's going on.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: This is all part of an ongoing effort by right-wing groups and politicians to make libraries sites in their culture wars against gender and racial equality. Here again, is Lisa Varga, executive director of the Virginia Library Association.

Lisa Varga: The last two years of my life have been consumed with trying to convince people that, when you read a passage out of context, that does not an entire book make. When you decide that a certain type of book, that is written by or includes the lived experiences of BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ individuals, that you can't just decide side for everybody that that book is bad. You can decide for yourself if you don't want you or your kids to read it, but you really don't get to say that about everyone else's kid.

I think that TikTok allows us to showcase our skillset without being on the defensive all the time. It allows us to show the highlights of our day. You can't put a price on the smile you get from a kid who comes in and is looking for a specific book, or a kind of book, and when you put it in their hands, they light up. That isn't the kind of thing that makes the snappy headlines, or the clickbait. We've really fallen, strangely, down some rabbit hole, not of our own making, that started to erode the trust that libraries and librarians have built up over decades.

I think our TikTok creator creators are able to bring some of that back. I'd also like to encourage anyone listening, to please visit Unite Against Book Bans, which is an organization that is trying to mobilize and get the word out about the attempts of book banning and censorship that are happening in communities all around our country. Make no mistake, these are very targeted and specific, and they have been sharing lists of books.

If, when you work in a library, and this comes to you, please reach out to your state library association, or any of the other organizations that can support you. You do not need to do this alone.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: Mychal, I'm going to ask if you want to also speak on this moment of book banning in which we find ourselves.

Mychal Threets: Even in my local library, just a quick story-- The other day, a young Black boy came into the children's section while I was on desk. He and his dad just walked up to me. He didn't even want any books. He just stared at me for a second and he said, "Are you a Black boy like me?" I didn't correct him. I didn't say I'm a Black man. I just went with it. We just had a small interaction, but I think something as small as that goes into the importance of book bans.

People wanted to see library workers who look like them. In the same context, they want to see books that look like them, that represent them. I used to be a children's librarian, and when I was a children's librarian, I would take a suitcase full of books to schools, all sorts. All the times, people from kindergarten to sixth grade, they would pick up the different books that had covers that looked like their friends, and they'd say, "Hey, this book looks like you, you should get it. You might like it."

Even kids who are white would want to read books about-- They could see that the characters are Black. They could see that they're Asian, because they wanted to learn more about their friends. They wanted to get closer to them. Even though our libraries have not been truly impacted by book bans, all libraries are impacted by any book ban, because we all love one another and support one another, so any book ban that exists is a fight that we're all willing to join.

That's what we try to use TikTok for, Instagram, even Twitter, just to highlight books that show Asian representation, that show Black representation, Latino, Latinx, LGBTQI+ representation, and so on. That allows us to show the joy of those books. I think that's the real thing, is that book bans never make sense, because all these books are just stories of authenticity, of genuine authors, of their lives, trying to show kids how great they can be.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: If you had a vision of what our libraries would be in-- Let's make it a relatively short future. In 10 years, if somebody came down with a magic grant and was like, "Here, spend what you want, make the library of your dreams." Mychal, what would the library of your dreams be like?

Mychal Threets: I think my dream library would just be a library that is welcoming, belonging, for everybody. I would love for there to be-- I think there's a sense that libraries are quiet places. I've never shushed anybody. I've actually been shushed, as a librarian, before. I do believe that there should be at least one quiet area for people to study, to take tests. There would definitely be a social worker at the library to assist our unhoused community, and anyone who may need their services.

I would love to see a coffee shop in the library. A giant garden for people to enjoy, observe, and read in hammocks, or in chairs, throughout the garden. All of the various collections that we have, a special section for those. The video game collection, musical instrument collection, social justice book kit collection, mental health kit collection, video game, sport games, a house for all of those. The perfect place for kids to play, something with sensory toys.

I would just want to have enough resources that we could encourage people of all colors, tattooed people, pierced people, neon haired people, to want to be at this amazing dream library.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: Rhea, what's your vision?

Rhea Gardner: Oh, I like your vision, Mychal. I would like to see, actually, more libraries. I feel like our community in Dixon, it's not accessible to people that need it. There's a migrant camp, that we do outreach to them, but we'd also love to bring them to the library. Whether that looks like bus routes, or some kind of grant to get taxis. I can get into the technical things too, because, with Solano, our library, we need to get a new roof.

Facility maintenance is really important. In my library right now, we had a basement leak that we had to fix. I think that's something that we don't really talk a lot about, being able to upkeep our facility.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: I love that, we literally went from the roof to the basement.

Rhea Gardner: Yes. From top to bottom, inside and out.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: Lisa, I want to end on you here. Do you have a vision for the future?

Lisa Varga: I do. I have a fantasy that all libraries will be fully funded, and maybe funded to excess, at some point. It feels like it's an uphill battle every year, not only to be able to evolve our collections, but to fix the roofs, the basements, and the flooding issues. I think my vision for the future is, there are still so very few places where people can go without the expectation of spending money. If we can preserve that in our libraries, I think it would benefit all the members of our society.

Dr. Melissa Harris-Perry: Mychal Threets, Rhea Gardner, are supervising librarians at Solano County Library in California, and they are on TikTok. Lisa Varga is executive director of the Virginia Library Association. Thank you, to all of you, for taking some time with us on The Takeaway.

Lisa Varga: Thank you.

Rhea Gardner: Thank you.

Mychal Threets: Thank you so much. It was an honor.

[music]

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.