David Remnick: The band, Lake Street Dive, recorded their first album with money that their bassist had won in a songwriting contest. They were kids at the time, music students at the prestigious New England Conservatory. Instead of playing classical or jazz, they gravitated over the years more and more toward a blend of Americana, pop, country, and rock, and they made it all their own.

Like a lot of fans, I stumbled onto the band via YouTube years ago, and I really love their pop covers and their incredibly homey stage presence. For years, Lake Street Dive was a little underground, and they toured from one small venue to the next, losing band members and gaining some along the way. Nnow, almost 20 years later, Lake Street Dive finds themselves coming to the stage of Madison Square Garden, and they join us in the studio at WNYC.

[MUSIC - Lake Street Dive: Good Together]

I know, I know I'm not the first one to sweep you off your feet

But I believe we can make it

You know, you know back where I came from, they're coming after me

Where do I think of escaping?

And if you stay by my side (Stay by my side)

I know a place we can hide (Place we can hide)

With many earthly delights (Earthly delights)

And even better (Better, better, better, better)

We could be good togеther

We could be good togеther

Let's knock on wood together

It feels so good to be good together

I don't know if it's right, but I know that I'm having fun

This might be the first good thing I've done, oh, oh, oh

We could be good togеther

We could be good togеther

Let's knock on wood together

It feels so good to be good together

I hope, I hope you don't feel bad about how good we can be

Every sinner has a soft side

I hope, I hope you don't get down and out when love isn't mean

'Cause I'll be your Mr. Nice Guy

And if you stay by my side (Stay by my side)

I know the wrong way to be right (Way to be right)

With many earthly delights (Earthly delights)

And even better (Better, better, better, better)

We could be good to be, good togеther

David: That's Good Together, a song on the record of the very same name by Lake Street Dive. That was great.

Rachael Price: Thank you.

David: I think we should go around the table and everybody introduce themselves. Rachael.

Rachael: This is Rachael Price. I'm the singer in the band.

Mike Calabrese: This is Mike Calabrese. I'm the drummer.

Bridget Kearney: I'm Bridget Kearney. I play the bass.

James Cornelson: I'm James Cornelson. I play the guitar.

Akie Bermiss: I'm Aki Bermiss. I play the keyboards.

David: You sing.

Akie: Sing sometimes, yes, when provoked.

David: Everybody sings. There's a quality. I don't know how to describe it otherwise. I should confess that I'm watching you on YouTube. It's because I'm working late at night, and I want to take a break. There's a certain happiness to this band. There's a lift that comes from listening, watching you. One review from AllMusic says, "They're good together." The song you just played is a love song that, this is a quote, "Could just as easily work as a love letter penned by the members of Lake Street Dive to each other." I see blushes all around the table and tears. Bridget is crying, she's weeping. Bridget, is that accurate?

Bridget: I think we do love each other a lot. I think that comes through. Then definitely, joy and fun has always been a priority. I think it's what kept us together in the beginning and it's what has gotten us through some of the just slog of the early years of being a touring band. Even now, there are parts of the job that are really grueling.

David: What's the grueling bit?

Bridget: Oh, just being on the road, just being exhausted. Sometimes along tour, you play the same songs a lot. One example is we've played the same setlist a lot in the last couple months because we're putting on this new record. You have to be able to make each other light up on stage. Mike is great at playing a drum fill. It's for the audience, but it's really just for us.

David: To amuse you.

Bridget: To amuse us to turn some heads and be like, "Oh yeah. We're playing a show. Let's have fun."

[laughter]

?Mike: Wake up.

David: I've been listening to this band for years, and I thought it was my little bit of a secret. Then I get a press release you're at Madison Square Garden. How do you fill up Madison Square Garden when you've been playing for years and years in, let's just say, smaller venues?

Bridget: Well, we have grown the show. We've got a horn section, percussionist, and some more involved set design and all that. Also, I think my main inspiration for playing MSG is Billy Joel. I've seen him there and he--

David: He's been there a bit.

Bridget: He plays there a lot and it feels like the club when he's playing there because he's so comfortable there and he acts that way, too. He plays that up. He's just like, "Yeah, welcome to my monthly gig. Here again at Madison Square Garden." It won't be quite like that for us. We'll definitely be at 12 psych level. I'd love it if we could in some ways make it feel intimate. Make it feel like it's a gigantic dive bar.

In college where we met, we were studying jazz, and so definitely, the view of what life would look like was more like playing in small clubs around New York City, although it's been a slow and steady path towards it. Just basically grassroots knocking on doors, like, "Hi. Have you heard of Lake Street Dive?" It's been one person at a time, and then they tell somebody else.

David: At the conservatory, this was a breakaway. This was considered a radical move to break away and play this kind of music, as opposed to learning your Charles Mingus or Benny Goodman, whatever it is you're learning.

Akie: Speak on that.

?James: Not really.

Bridget: Well, New England Conservatory had a really broad definition of what jazz could mean, and I think focuses on more the fundamental building blocks of music, and then you figure out what those are and then put them together in your own way in a semi-genreless fashion. There were all sorts of weird bands floating around NEC when we were there.

David: So how does the band become itself? What are the first meetings of the band? What kind of music are you playing and for whom? What did you think it was going to be all about? Rachael?

Rachael: The first meeting of the band was when Mike Olson, who we've always referred to as McDuck, asked us each individually, in a very formal way, to be in a band. That was me and Bridget and Mike. It was at the end of our first year at NEC. He was envisioning a band that could play at a dive bar. It would be like the type of music that anyone could walk in and listen to, but we were at jazz school, so I think probably we needed to put a twist on it that legitimized our tuition or something. [laughter] We were just exploring what it was like to just play tunes like that. We sounded really, really weird, but I do think that we sounded like a band.

David: How would you categorize the music of the band? There's this term Americana. There's the term this, that, and the other thing. Bridget. Bridget is the designated [unintelligible 00:08:43] [crosstalk]. Okay, you can go second.

Mike: I second whatever Bridget's about to say.

Bridget: I have three answers on myself. There's soundtrack to a romantic comedy. There's roller skating music. The latest one that we came up with is Châteauneuf-du-Pape, which is in reference to [unintelligible 00:09:06].

[crosstalk]

Mike: Also a pun. It's really whoever cuts the glass [unintelligible 00:09:14].

David: It's a no answer is what you're telling me, because roller skating music is a little flutier than-- Fair enough. I got my comeuppance there. When you sit down to write a song, it's one at a time, two at a time, everybody joins in. How does this work? Maybe sketch it out with one of the songs on the album.

Mike: Good Together is a great example. At least more recently, in trying to write in the room together, which is something that we've never done before even after 20 years together or 7 years with Akie, we rolled Dungeons & Dragons dice to come up with parameters of a song; tempo, chords, and time signature. We took those parameters and jammed on them for a little bit just to get the music together, recorded a little vamp and whoever--

David: In the same room.

Mike: In the same room, yes. Then whoever had rolled the dice, took that little vamp on their phone and went off for 30 minutes and tried to put an idea down for lyrics and melody on top of it.

David: Akie, I have to say, that sounds insane.

Akie: I agree. I couldn't agree more.

David: How do you deal with these people?

Akie: Been with these guys for seven years.

David: It must be very difficult.

Akie: There's no explanation for this.

David: I'm sorry.

Akie: Except I may have been the one to introduce dodecahedron dice to our band life. What Michael isn't saying is we-- When I first joined the band, people wrote songs, as far as I know, and then brought them to the band, and the band jammed on the songs. Then the second record I was involved in, which I was partially writing, partially doing sideman stuff, was like, two people would write a song together and then present it to the group. This was the first time we all sat down and stared at each other. Were like, "What's the record going to be?" The dice helped break it up, but it did result in a lot of insane tunes.

David: What was the idea behind this record? You want this record to be what?

Akie: Well, I think Bridget came up with the term joyful rebellion. We were trying to find a lasting-- This is my interpretation of it, and please don't let me get too cerebral. We are trying to find--

David: This is public radio.

Akie: Great. I feel good about what I'm about to say.

David: Good.

Akie: We were trying to create an emotion that had a very long half-life. I think there's so much emphasis on rage, upset, disappointment. I think those emotions, they're very intense, but their half-lives are very short. You rarely linger on them months and months later, unless you've got a vengeance quest in a fantasy novel. Joy is something that I think you carry a memory of joy with you sometimes for your entire life. Just being reminded of it, like, remember that time we did that wonderful thing, can fill you up with that kind of positive energy.

David: Bridget, was there any model of joyful rebellion in your listening history?

Bridget: Yes. In our recent band history, we got to play at Mavis Staples' 80th birthday party at the Apollo, which was amazing.

David: She's still on the road.

Bridget: She's still on the road. She just had her 85th birthday.

David: I know.

Bridget: We, for that concert, learned the song The Staple Singers used to do called Just Another Soldier in the Army of Love. We did it for that event, and then we kept it on our set list. It just opened up a whole new door of feelings on the stage, and then I think in the audience, too. We have a bunch of songs that are relatable in the romantic realm, love songs, heartbreak songs, everybody's been there.

Then there's this other universe of things we all share in terms of bigger-picture struggles and bigger-picture victories. This felt like we were all going through some things that are in that world of what Akie was talking about, emotions with shorter half-life. We would put those at the beginning of the song, and then at the back half of the song, put more of the hopeful solutions part of things.

David: Bridget Kearney who plays bass in Lake Street Dive. We'll continue and we'll hear another song in just a moment. This is The New Yorker Radio Hour. Stick around. This is The New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. I've been speaking with the members of Lake Street Dive. The band takes its name, of course, from Lake Street in Minneapolis, which has its share of dives. This is hardly a bar band or not anymore. Over many albums and many years together, they've become one of the tightest outfits around. Lake Street Dive's eighth studio album is called Naturally Good Together. They join me to perform at WNYC. We'll continue our conversation.

I want to have you play the song Shame, Shame, Shameirst, can you talk a little bit about what inspired the song and what was going on at the time?

Bridget: I think, broadly speaking, it's about a person in a position of power who's trying to resolve their own personal petty grievances from that position of power, and everyone else suffers the consequences.

David: Are we thinking of anyone?

Bridget: Well, does it remind you of anyone? This song was written in probably 2017, 2018.

David: It's as vital today as it was then.

Bridget: It's as vital today as it was then. The end of the song is seeking a way forward, and there's a big sing-along section there that just says, "Change is coming. Oh, yeah. Ain't no holding it back," that kind of thing. Something that hopefully sticks in people's minds and can inspire them. It's also got this pretty long first half that's hurting.

David: Let's hear you play a little bit from the song Shame, Shame, Shame.

Rachael: Sure. One, two.

[MUSIC - Lake Street Dive: Shame, Shame, Shame]

Hold your breath under water

Cause another one's about to fall down

Lead the lamb to the slaughter

Another one's about to fall down

Shame, shame, shame

Shame, shame, shame on you

It's not a game, game, game

Shame, shame, shame, shame on you

I bet you think you're a big man now

But I think you're a sick man now

And you dont know how to be a good man too

David: Rachael, we're just discussing before about the joy aspect of your music. The political aspect of music is also there, too. What can it accomplish and what can it not accomplish, political music?

Rachael: What music can really seek to do is unify people. We play everywhere in the country. We go to every town, every big city, and play for wonderful people everywhere, and you see all kinds of people, to understand that probably we're all seeking the same life in a lot of different ways. Did that make sense?

David: Well, how would you describe that?

Rachael: Just that I do think that people are trying to help one another. I do. I think that people are trying to be joyful and trying to live in conscious communities and a space where people are getting together and they're dancing to the same song and singing the same song, and they're saying like, "Oh my God. You listen to this band." It's such a wonderful place to be. Which is why I feel like, coming from 2017, playing a song like Shame, Shame, Shame has brought us to the point where when we went to make this record, we were like, how can we express sadness and grief and frustration, but also put in a joyful message so that people can have this catharsis together?

David: You've talked about the benefit of not having one big radio hit that everybody knows. Why is that a benefit? Why is that a good thing?

Rachael: You don't want people just-- especially when it's one song, I think that could be difficult. If they at least like 10 of your songs and they come to your show and you play 4 of them, then everybody's going to be happy. Then you might have a weird new goth metal record that you made, and you're like, I'm only gonna play two of these. This is what I'm feeling right now.

Mike: What just popped into my head is a video of-- I saw a video of Chappell Roan, who somebody said-- this was taken earlier this week. In November of last year, she was playing for 200 people. Now she's one of the biggest stars in the world. This is a video of her on stage weeping. The audience is very supportive, but she's just--

David: Weeping 'cause she's so freaked out or so happy?

Mike: No, so freaked out because it's so much, because it happened so fast. I mean, people might say, "Oh, what are you complaining about? You're so famous now," whatever. That happening so fast could be traumatic, no doubt.

David: Yet bring it on, or yet let--

Mike: Well, I will say that at this point, knowing who we are, knowing that we like each other, we would be able to dissipate any, I think, huge fame if that were to befall us. I'm not really that scared if it happens. I'm not necessarily in the bring it on camp, but bring it on, I guess.

[laughter]

David: There you go. A moment of honesty.

Mike: Come on. Who doesn't want that?

David: There you go.

Mike: To an extent.

David: The last song I'll ask you to play is also the last song in the album with the great title, Set Sail (Prometheus & Eros). Now, who wrote that? You're pointing back and forth, Bridget.

Bridget: Akie and I.

David: What's the story, Akie, behind that song?

Akie: Bridget sent me a stanza and maybe explained to me that she envisioned people landing on a planet after this planet had been ruined or something like that.

Bridget: Yes. It's a near-future imagined apocalypse.

David: What occasioned that? Anything illegal?

Bridget: Well, no. Really, I was just sitting down. I wanted to write a McCartney piano song. The Prometheus and Eros concept is like Prometheus giving fire to man and that representing man's insatiable desire for growth and invention and expansion. Prometheus is counterbalanced by Eros, the God of love, which is hopefully what will save us. That means love for each other, lifting each other up, supporting each other, looking out for each other. Now, those two Greek mythological characters never actually interacted in Greek mythology, so this is fanfiction for them.

[laughter]

Akie: Greek fanfiction.

David: You get this stanza, you open your email or it's been texted to you, and you think, okay, now I know what to do with this.

Akie: 100%. Bridget, I know she had a slight science fiction premise, and she sent it to the right person. If Bridget says Prometheus and Eros are hanging out, how would they converse with each other? How would they dialogue? That's basically how I tried to do it, but within the strictures of the stanzas that Bridget gave me.

David: You go back and forth, back and forth, and then you all get in a room and start working it out.

Bridget: [unintelligible 00:21:51] solo.

David: It sounds like tremendous fun.

Rachael: Everything about set sail was fun. Are you kidding? Akie and I are doing our best. Celine Dion, Peapo Bryson.

Akie: Fulfilling a childhood dream to do a Disney soundtrack.

David: Is that in the future, Disney soundtracks? I'm there.

Rachael: Call us.

Bridget: We're sitting at the front.

David: You got my number.

Mike: That's a bring it on, I can get behind.

?James: Bring it on.

[MUSIC - Lake Street Dive: Set Sail (Prometheus & Eros)]

Hold my hand while we land

I can't believe that we made it

Natural explorers, we

Unnatural disasters

Beset us from the start

Threatening to break my heart

Set sail unto the breach once more

Take this gift from my lips

A kiss can't be lost in translation

Off into the twilight, we

So often that the gods might

Regret their empty vows

Hoping to join us now

Let's sail unto the breach once more

Hold your breath, pray for death

Imagine the looks on their faces

Veritable monsters, we

Cynics and imposters

Delighted and dismayed

Look at the world we made

And sail unto the breach once more

Cuts me to the marrow, see?

Prometheus and Eros

Be still my broken heart

We took this way too far

Oh well, unto the breach once more

David: Rachael Price, Bridget Kearney, Mike Calabrese, Akie Bermiss, and James Cornelson. [unintelligible 00:25:49] performing at Madison Square Garden this week. I'm David Remnick. Thanks for joining us. See you next time.

 

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