Melissa Harris-Perry: Welcome back to The Takeaway. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry. Back in October, we talked with you about the story of Julius Jones and the tireless efforts of his supporters to secure his release from Oklahoma's death row.

Reporter: The clock is now ticking louder than ever for Oklahoma death row inmate Julius Jones.

Melissa Harris-Perry: On November 18th, Jones was prepared for his execution, but then just 4 hours before the scheduled execution, Oklahoma governor Kevin Stitt commuted Jones' death sentence, issuing an executive order that Jones be sentenced instead to life without the possibility of parole.

Now, Jones was convicted of the murder of Paul Howell in 1999, and it's a crime he maintains he did not commit. Substantial evidence does throw doubt on Jones's guilt, including the fact that multiple people have given sworn statements saying they heard another man, Christopher Jordan, confess to the murder of Paul Howell.

This week, the Innocence Project in New York City is honoring the work of Reverend Cece Jones-Davis, the campaign founder and director of Justice for Julius, and Antoinette Jones, sister of Julius Jones for their work to spare Julius's life. They stop by to talk with us at The Takeaway and they give us the latest, both on Julius's case and on their ongoing fight to prove his innocence. Antoinette, can you tell me about the day your brother was scheduled to be executed.

Antoinette Jones: The morning of November 18th, we drove and we were praying in silence and I know it was a pretty tough moment, but I still felt good about what was going to happen that day. I knew my brother wouldn't be executed. I knew he wouldn't be put on the table. I knew he wouldn't be strapped. I knew because God had assured me.

When we got down to McAlester and we turned at the E-Z Mart, I believe it's like a convenience store, I happened to walk past one of the reporters and she noticed it was me and I was just going to the bathroom. She was asking me questions and she just asked me, she was like, "How do you feel about today? I don't even know how to ask you that."

I said, "Remarkably, I feel really calm and I did all that I can do and I know it's in God's hands." I want to say a little bit after 12:00, maybe 12:03 or 12:04, we got the news that the governor is going to stay the execution, which was four hours before the scheduled execution. I will say, after processing all of that, that was a lot, that was torturous. Just thinking about my brother being on death watch. He witnessed, I believe, at least I don't even know how many executions that he knew about that were going to happen because before he was on death watch, he was near the death chamber anyway. A lot of people don't know that.

Just thinking about all that my parents have endured, the nasty words, the evil things that we have had done to us, but God sustained us. I thank God that we have a relationship because without God, I don't know if I could have made 23 years and I don't know if my brother can make 20 years, but I thank God he has a sound mind. He still has a sensitive, loving heart and he still wants to love on people. He still wants to share his heart. He still wants to share his thoughts, his dreams, his goals, and he's still pouring into young people and adults.

Even after the scheduled execution date of November 18th, there are people who've been telling me that they didn't believe that there was God, but because they were fighting for Julius, they knew it was something that was keeping them coming to prayer vigils, keeping them coming and staying connected. I thank God for the light that we are sharing.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Antoinette, I appreciate. Every time that we've talked, your love for your brother, your commitment, it is at the level of your soul. It is not just your mind. It is not just your heart. I feel the soul connection that you have and I so appreciate the love that you share with us as well.

Yet Cece, Reverend, as I'm listening to Antoinette, the joy that there is life, that Julius is spared, but also what must be a continuing sadness about the fact that although there was this decision not to go forward with an execution, there was also not an exoneration. Can you talk to us about both how Julius has been coping with that, and whether or not there's a legal team that sees any other possibilities here? Is there another way forward?

Reverend Cece Jones-Davis: We recognize that Julius being alive is a blessing and a victory for sure, but none of us feel like we've won. There's a 42-year-old vibrant man innocent in prison today in Oklahoma, woke up this morning in prison for a crime that he did not commit. The governor of Oklahoma on November 18th established an executive order saying that he would never be able to get before the pardon and parole board again in his life.

That has been a terribly bitter pill, and what I can tell you is that Julius is one of the most resilient human beings I have ever met. The Jones family, they are the most resilient folks that I know. This has been really tough because Julius has always said to all of us, "Hey, I would rather die than spend the rest of my life in prison for a crime that I did not commit."

For him, he felt like he was going to have two options. That he was either going to come home or go home. He felt like he was coming home to his mom and dad and to Antoinette, or he was going to go be with God. He had not prepared his mind and we hadn't fully prepared our minds for anything in between, and so the adjustment has been a hard one. There's been a lot of ups and downs in the last six months, but there were a lot of people who said Julius would not get this far.

There were a lot of people who said this campaign would not be successful, would not meet our goals, and we have believed in the impossible and we have seen the impossible happen. Julius is the only death row inmate in Oklahoma to have ever had a commutation hearing in that state. He's one of a very few whose sentences have been commuted and so we know that we work and we believe well beyond the impossible. That's what we're going to keep on doing.

In terms of his legal team, they are really in the process now of determining what is next legally. We do not believe that the executive order is constitutional and when they can, and when they're ready, they're going to challenge that executive order and so right now, we're in the meantime. I was telling the Justice for Julius crew, we're really like a family, that when the people were coming out of Egypt, going to the promised land, there were many wildernesses, there wasn't just one.

We just happen to find ourselves in the next wilderness, but we're going to keep on pressing. We're going to keep on talking about Julius and telling his story and doing good in the community on his behalf, and also allowing him to share his own story as he is able because Julius has his own voice. He is his own person. He is an incredible intellectual brilliant Black man and he's got much to say about all kinds of things, and so in this meantime, we are just going to continue the work that we can do. When it's time to do something else legally, we'll all be ready to support that.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I love the idea of Julius being able to speak for himself. I know that wasn't even something that he had an opportunity to do initially in terms of fighting for his own opportunity for commutation. Cece, one more follow-up for you on this though. Julius received commutation. I think in the news recently, there's been a lot of conversation around Melissa Lucio, a death row inmate in Texas, who was granted a stay of execution by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, but may be worth reminding folks at this moment the difference between a commutation, even one as difficult as the one that was given to Julius, and a stay.

Reverend Cece Jones-Davis: Well, a stay is a state just saying we've given someone an execution date, but we are not going to proceed because we want to consider new information, new evidence. We want to weigh all the facts, and so they have not taken execution off the table. They have just stopped it for a period of time. Whereas someone being commuted like in Julius's case, his sentence has been changed legally from death row to life in prison without the possibility of parole, that's his current status. That's the difference between a commutation. A commutation is a change in sentencing, a stay is a halt of an execution for an amount of time.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Antoinette, as you were walking us through that day, you were also reminding us of some things that I think folks often don't know or don't understand about death row. As you reflect on this journey, what is it that you want other people to take from your story and from Julius's story?

Antoinette Jones: I want people to know that they are human. They are not a DLC number. They are not a case file. They are human beings that are being dehumanized. I don't even know if they're being fed actual food, but I want the loved ones of those that are on death row or are confined in a prison, please continue to reach out to your loved ones that are going through so much that we don't know about on a daily basis.

It is important to love on each other. It's important for our clergy, whoever you are, if you have a heart, understand that people that are incarcerated are human beings. They are not prisoners. They are not slaves. They are human beings. It is time for the church to wake up and start getting in the communities, in the streets, in the prisons, in the facilities that are encaging human beings. It's time to love on one another.

We are not doing rehabilitation like we are supposed to do. It is important that we give life and love to those that have made some mistakes and the sad part about it is some people they have not even did the crime that they're doing time for. It's important that we take back what is being taken from our communities, those lives that are being just caged, life being closed off in cement. It's important that we break those cement blocks. It is important that we get back to loving like God wants us to. He wants us to care about one another.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Cece, I understand you all are in town to receive an award. Can you tell us about that?

Reverend Cece Jones-Davis: Yes, absolutely. I'm really, really honored to receive an award from the New York Innocence Project for leading the Justice for Julius campaign. We've had several amazing acknowledgments along these lines and it's so, gosh, I can't even describe how heartwarming it is for people to see you, for people to see us. There's been a lot of loneliness. There's been a lot of effort that nobody knows anything about.

There's been a lot of turmoil that only me and Antoinette might know something about. These kinds of things are really powerful and is a blessing to our hearts, but what I want to say about that is that we are not doing this work for any award. We are doing this work because it is the requirement that God has given us to do justice, love, mercy, and to walk humbly with God.

I would not have even known these kinds of award existed when this effort started. I am deeply grateful, but I am also extremely focused on what is next for Julius. This is about him and we are not going to rest until he is home.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Reverend Cece Jones-Davis is the campaign founder and director of Justice for Julius, and Antoinette Jones is the beloved sister of Julius Jones. Thank you both for taking the time today.

Reverend Cece Jones-Davis: Thank you.

Antoinette Jones: Thank you so much.

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