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Melissa Harris-Perry: This is The Takeaway. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry. We're revisiting a conversation I had back in June about people of color living with disabilities and the disparities they face.

The US government estimates that as many as 23 million people in the US are struggling with long COVID. The sometimes-debilitating symptoms include brain fog, fatigue, difficulty breathing, and depression or anxiety. Over a year after the Biden administration released guidance stating that people with long COVID can be included under the Americans with Disabilities Act, receiving benefits remains a struggle.

Even before the pandemic, roughly one in four Americans were living with a disability, and while people with disabilities are more likely overall to experience financial difficulties, that's particularly true for people of color with disabilities. According to The Century Foundation, as of 2020, one in four Black disabled people was living in poverty. That's compared to one in seven white disabled people.

At the end of May, the House Financial Services Subcommittee on Diversity and Inclusion held a hearing on financial inequities for people with disabilities, including those with long COVID. Disability rights advocate and Century Foundation fellow, Vilissa Thompson testified at the hearing.

Vilissa Thompson: This is a young Black disabled adult trying to navigate systems that have roadblocks to impede my success. This data is my abstract to me, it is personal as it is for millions of disabled people. The systemic and societal realities disabled people, particularly those of color, endure must not be ignored when we discuss the economic barriers that impact our ability to not just survive but thrive.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I wanted to hear more from her on these issues, so she joined me back in June for a chat.

Vilissa Thompson: Hi, I'm Vilissa Thompson, and I am the founder of Ramp Your Voice. I'm a disability rights activist, and I am a fellow at The Century Foundation and co-director of the Disability Economic Justice Collaborative.

Melissa Harris-Perry: In full disclosure, I am a longtime trustee of The Century Foundation. Now, Vilissa told me about her experience testifying before Congress.

Vilissa Thompson: Oh my God, it was such an incredible experience of having the support of my team at The Century Foundation in developing both my written and oral testimonies to where I talked about the financial realities, economic realities of disabled people in this country. I wanted to add the intersectional understanding of that, so I created a character named Keisha, who is a young Black disabled adult who's navigating young adulthood and all the issues that come with it in general but also the disability aspects of it when it comes to the systems and the realities that we deal with when it comes to education, employment, housing, Social Security, those things that many of us who are disabled adults have had to navigate for the first time, including myself, and wish that somebody had told us a little bit of what to expect and what the realities are, which just means a lot of obstacles for us to gain the things that we have our right to and what does that mean when it comes to our ability to be a part of society as young people.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Now, when you talk about persons living with a disability, that's a pretty diverse group of people.

Vilissa Thompson: Yes. We are looking at over 61 million.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Diverse in a couple of-- or maybe not just a couple but diverse in multiple ways, let's just walk through that a little bit. Let's just start with what maybe to some folks seems obvious but clearly isn't. What does it even mean to be living with a disability, what kinds of disabilities, perhaps having the greatest impact on the question of, for example, economic opportunity?

Vilissa Thompson: A disability can be someone who is blind or low vision, deaf or hard of hearing. I know that myself I am physically disabled and also hard of hearing myself. Disability can be of the body, mind, or both. I always look at it as-- As a disabled person, you have to be aware of how the world engages with you and the reaction to that. Those reactions can impede the opportunities that you have to succeed when it comes to the dreams you have, when it comes to employment, education, just being social and thriving in our society, what resources are available to you when it comes to housing, and so forth like that.

Even though we are the largest minority group in this country, there are many barriers that exist when it comes to us that a lot of people are not familiar with until they encounter a disabled person or they themselves have a disabled person in their lives who they are witnessing them encounter these barriers. It's something that should be on the consciousness of everybody, particularly when we're dealing with the economic aspects of how do people support themselves. We see the conversations around high gas prices, high rent, high inflation on food. Those are all tied to disability in the ways that we are able to access those resources, to pay for those resources, and how do we ensure that we have what we need every day.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Let's now talk about these other pluralistic differences and specifically around intersectionality. When we look at the broad community of persons living with a disability, if we crosscut that with intersectionality, with issues of race, language, ethnicity, status, gender, trans identity, queer identities, when we look at the community of those living with disability, are these the same hierarchies and inequalities that we see in the general population?

Vilissa Thompson: The one thing I want to state is that disabled people make up every group that you just mentioned, race, gender, religion, queerness, transness. We need to recognize that. That's so important. When we think about the intersectionality, disability is stark in that. When it comes to race, for example, native Indigenous people have the highest prevalence of disability in this country followed by Black Americans. With that particular identity alone, you cannot effectively talk about race issues without having a disability lens when many members in those communities are impacted.

When we look at the other issues of identity and then societal issues, education accessibility, and so forth, it is important to have a disability lens because disabled people are typically forgotten when we talk about those issues. When we bring that lens within these conversations, we see that whatever disparities that exist, they exist even sharper when disability is at play and then when you add the other intersecting identities on top of that. As I say, in the Black progressive spaces that I'm in, you cannot fight for whatever freedoms, liberations, without including disability, and especially including Black [unintelligible 00:07:30] people in what you're doing in understanding the plight of this community and how racism, ableism, the other isms, the phobias that exist impacts a person's ability to be a part of society and what does that look like.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Let's just take one example. The issue of incarceration and institutional confinement, if we make it a broader way of thinking about all of the different ways that our system of incarceration confines and institutionalizes so many, help us use or put on a disability lens for thinking about racial inequity in our carceral system.

Vilissa Thompson: [unintelligible 00:08:12] to look at when it comes to state-sanctioned violence, 50% of people who care about police are disabled, and a good portion of the percentage are those who are Black and brown. Black and brown disabled people engage with the police at higher rates due to the way in which race and disability intersect. When it comes to disabled women, they can make a great percentage of those who are incarcerated, and we will look at it by race, gender, and disability. Disability, as I said before, is a very big part of the conversation that is missing.

When we talk about incarceration, when we talk about state-sanctioned violence, when we have issues of police brutality, many of the people whose names we have sadly gotten to know, Sandra Bland, Korryn Gaines, Freddie Gray, they were all disabled, but their disability identities are footnotes, if at all, within the storytelling of what happened to them and who they are. You cannot leave out disability in these type of conversations because you are leaving out how people are greatly impacted based on what they look like, how they present, how these systems devalue them because of those identities.

Melissa Harris-Perry: According to the Center for American Progress, as many as half of the people killed at the hands of law enforcement officers have some kind of disability. According to a 2017 report from the American Journal of Public Health, Black people with a disability are twice as likely to be arrested by the time they turn 28 compared with a white person without a disability. The reasons for these jarring statistics are complicated, but at least one root cause is America's frayed social safety net. It fails to provide the medical, emotional, and economic support many with disabilities need. As a result, in a moment of crisis, there is no one to call but 911, and police are often unable or unwilling to manage these situations.

Take for example, in 2017, Oklahoma police fatally shot a deaf man who could not hear them shouting to stop. In 2021, Oakland police tased and restrained a man who was having an epileptic seizure, claiming that he was assaulting them. Now America's prisons burst with those who in previous decades might have had access to specialized services for their needs, creating a bit of a perfect storm where race, disability, and the carceral system meet. Vilissa Thompson discussed how the disability economic justice team at The Century Foundation was working to address some of these issues.

Vilissa Thompson: For those of us who are on Social Security, for example, we are forced to save very little money due to the asset limits that have not been updated for decades. Currently, disabled folks on SSI as an individual can save up to $2,000 and as a couple $3,000. We know that that's not enough in case an emergency happens. That's not enough in case you want to help someone in need or just be able to build a more fruitful future for yourself.

We want to, not just address the barriers that exist for disabled people to thrive in this country, but also figure out how do we get policy makers, organizations that have a stark interest in the economic success and involvement of people in this country to be on board with what's going on with this particular minority group and how they can play a role in that. Our goal is to really impact policy over the next 10 years to really, not just address the issues, but also make the changes that will hopefully ameliorate and then long term eliminate the barriers to economic success and to economic thriving for disabled people.

Melissa Harris-Perry: We're taking a quick break here, but we'll be back with more of my interview with Vilissa Thompson in just a moment.

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Melissa Harris-Perry: We're back revisiting my conversation with Vilissa Thompson, fellow of The Century Foundation and co-director of the Disability Economic Justice Collaborative. We've been talking about economic disparities experienced by people of color living with disabilities.

Vilissa Thompson: When it comes to Federal Housing, there's only a certain percentage that has to be designated towards housing for disabled people, those with physical disabilities, those who may be blind or low vision, deaf or hard of hearing. How'd we need to expand that so that disabled people are not having to be on long wait lists to gain access to adequate housing that they have a right to? Just understanding how the housing issue that we hear people talking about due to, of course, obvious rent increases, when it comes to the buying market, folks just feeling like they're being outbidded because of the prices being so astronomical.

That's a disability issue as well. When it comes to who is able to participate in this market with what resources, whether they're relying on governmental aid like Section 8 and other governmental assistance programs or if they have their own income, what does that mean for them in being able to find accessible housing that meets their needs in a housing market that at times feels like they forget that disabled people exist? Disabled people are renters and home buyers, and we need to have more universal accessible designs available so that we can be comfortable in our homes, that our homes allow us to grow and thrive, where we should feel the safest within.

Melissa Harris-Perry: What kind of reception have you gotten from members of Congress with whom you've spoken? Are folks seeming to be on board with some of these efforts? Are there folks you would point to as real champions of these efforts? Are there those who maybe are less champions?

Vilissa Thompson: I think that the main thing I have witnessed is educating people on our issues. I think the same thing as the layperson, some members of Congress may not be as versed as to what are the disparities for disabled people when it comes to economic issues. I think the whole point I wanted to participate in the hearing is to provide a better understanding of what the realities are, but there are champions in Congress that do get the issues. I know that during the hearing I had a great question-and-answer exchange with Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley, who has been a champion for this community since she has been in office.

Her questions towards me centered some of the issues that I mentioned, Social Security, housing, and so forth. It's folks like Congresswoman Pressley who get it, who are trying to do their best to educate their colleagues about the issues and also letting the community know, the disabled community, that, "Hey, I understand these issues. I want to hear from you. I want you to understand that I'm willing to do what I can do within my power to ensure that we are fighting for your rights and fighting alongside you and not dismissing what's happening here."

I think that it's someway a two-way street of highlighting those in these positions who do get it, who are part of the community, who are doing everything that they can, and also bringing those who may not be as versed and to the folks so they can become better allies, co-conspirators within their own positions to enact their policies that will greatly impact the quality of life and opportunities for this community.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I wonder about folks who maybe aren't going to have an opportunity to testify before Congress or maybe even necessarily talk directly with their member of Congress. What are some of the local-based initiatives that folks who are engaged in and interested in this work, particularly the intersections of economic well-being, questions of race and identity, and disability status, what are some of the local work that folks might get involved in?

Vilissa Thompson: I say it's definitely looking into who's doing the work in your area. When it comes to the grassroots organizations, the individual activists who have an understanding of these issues, disabled folks are everywhere. That means, for example, I live in South Carolina, so disabled activists like myself who are doing great work here, who are working with organizations, whether they're disability centered or not, they really want to bring these issues forward. I think that it's really on us to really find the people who are already there.

One of the great things about living in these times is the use of technology. Many disabled folks like myself have utilized social media and websites and other platforms to really create spaces for ourselves and not having to wait for someone to make room. We are making the room. We are making the tables that we feel like they should exist and should have existed before now. I think that in looking on the ground of sorts, looking at who's there on the ground, but also who's there virtually who may be in your state or in your city that you can collaborate with. I think it's a duality of how to connect with folks to understand who's talking about these issues.

It doesn't have to be just disability-specific, every social issue has a disability lens. If you care about climate change, there are disabled folks who work within that space that you can engage with. If you care about reproductive rights, abortion rights, there are disabled folks who are stark activists in that space. Whatever is your passion as a person, whatever that you care about, there is a disability connection and there are disabled people who are bringing that connection forward that should be on your radar.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Just a last question. As the pandemic was descending upon the nation, I remember having an initial chat with you about, again, some of the intersections of disability status and the pandemic. Now that so many organizations, institutions, workplaces, elected leaders are by and large declaring the pandemic over, I'm just wondering about, again, what you are thinking about feeling at the intersections of pandemic realities and disability.

Vilissa Thompson: Well, first, the pandemic is not over. It is raging forward, and it [unintelligible 00:19:04] on us to make that a reality of understanding. I know we're all tired, myself included, but just because we're tired does not mean that COVID is tired of us. It is very important for us to still take precautions that we were taking two years ago, wearing your mask, allowing people to work from home, doing events from home, and also finding ways to still keep those connections. Disabled folks like myself, we see folks are tired, but we also understand that we are tired too.

Many of us are tired of still taking the precautions where everybody is able to have "big fun outside", and we're still inside trying to make sure that we don't get sick or get our loved ones sick. I don't know what it's going to take, Melissa, for people to really understand that for us to get to an after or a post-COVID that this is a community effort. We are not going to get over this through individual acts. It's going to have to be a collective.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Vilissa Thompson is a disability rights advocate, a fellow at The Century Foundation, co-director of the Disability Economic Justice Collaborative, and founder of Ramp Your Voice.

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