[music]

Tanzina Vega: This is The Takeaway. I'm Tanzina Vega. After a few weeks of remote learning because of rising COVID-19 cases, New York City elementary schools are back open for in-person learning for tens of thousands of students. The push to keep the nation's largest school district open for in-person learning during the pandemic has been divisive, but it's been driven in part by the fear that many students will fall behind. Now new data backs some of those fears up and indicates that many of the country's most vulnerable students are experiencing the most severe setbacks.

A new study released by the consulting firm McKinsey & Company showed that remote learning caused white students to fall behind one to three months in math, while students of color were set back three to five months in the same subject. Those numbers are expected to keep getting worse the longer the pandemic persists. Another alarming metric falling grades among Black and Latino students, students learning English, and students with disabilities. According to The Washington Post, school districts from Maryland to California are reporting a sharp rise in low grades for students from these groups. We asked you if you felt your children were falling behind this year and here's what one of you had to tell us.

Evan: My name is Evan from Rockton, Illinois, my six-year-old daughter is struggling reading and math. She's below where she needs to be. I believe she may need to repeat first grade if she doesn't get some extreme intervention this summer. I plan to get her in with a tutor service to help catch up but even with that, I know there are emotional and social struggles she has as well. She has no friends to hang out with her age and most of her time has been spent with her parents, grandparents, and little brother.

Tanzina: We're going to have a lot more of your calls coming up later this hour but Joining me now is Kalyn Belsha, national reporter for Chalkbeat. Kalyn, welcome to the show.

Kalyn Belsha: Thanks so much for having me.

Tanzina: Janelle Scott is a professor of education at UC Berkeley. Janelle, thanks for being with us.

Janelle Scott: Thank you for having me.

Tanzina: Kalyn, let's start with you. There were fears of students falling behind since the beginning of the pandemic. What are some of the biggest gaps in learning that we're seeing so far?

Kalyn: So far, we really just have some data on what happened this spring. We don't really have a good sense of what's happened so far this fall. We know in the spring, most children were learning virtually. What most of the reports are showing that have done diagnostic testing. When children started the school year, those who were able to administer tests to children, these are optional for schools to give. We've seen students falling behind the most in math. The McKinsey report that you just mentioned, we are seeing there some instances where students of color lost more gain than white students. Obviously, that's concerning, because there were already inequities before the pandemic.

Tanzina: Janelle, let's talk a little bit about the rise in failing grades among students of color and students with disabilities. What does that tell us about the learning experiences that these children have been having during the pandemic?

Janelle: I think it tells us some things but maybe not enough. I think it shows that educators are likely feeling tremendous pressure to grade in very traditional ways and we are really schooling in non-traditional times. I think to the extent that grades reflect mastery of subject matter, then we are showing that students are not attaining what teachers and schools would like them to. I think this also opens up really a conversation to really rethink grading, given that we are in an ongoing pandemic.

Tanzina: Well, let's talk about that Janelle. You said, teachers are under pressure to grade in a certain way. What kind of pressure and how do you suggest they rethink that?

Janelle: I think the pressure comes from multiple sources. I think, like the gentleman whose concerns you just aired. Parents want information about how their children are doing and where the gaps are. I think policymakers increasingly want evidence that schools are serving all children. Researchers also want data in order to provide measurement and make some conclusions about the quality of schooling in remote and hybridize formats. I think the pressures are coming from multiple points.

Particularly in high school, I think what we could do is really rethink letter grades and move to a pass-fail system. I think providing teachers supports to give more narrative assessments of where children are, and the specific areas that parents and caregivers might attend to in terms of additional learning supports. Are some of the ways that we could rethink grading to be a bit more humane in reflecting some of the limitations and severe challenges that families are experiencing right now.

Tanzina: Kalyn, let's talk a little bit about the experiences that many of these children Black and brown students, Black and Latino students, specifically, disabled students. What learning environments are they learning in that could be contributing to this decline?

Kalyn: Sure. We know that of course, in households where there are multiple students learning at the same time. We've heard lots of reports of kids having trouble with the internet, because multiple people are trying to stream live video at the same time. This semester, a lot more teachers were trying live instruction to keep students engaged, and that uses a lot of bandwidth. We know students are on different schedules and so I've heard lots of parents say that they're toggling between many children at the same time.

They may not have their own setup, they might be in the same room and so they're getting distracted by each other. I talked with one mom the other day, who said that she put each of her children and tried to put them in different rooms. Then it made it hard for her to oversee their work, and they all had special education plans. She was trying to make sure that the virtual aides were helping them. It's just a really challenging environment for lots of parents and lots of kids right now.

Tanzina: Janelle, here in New York elementary schools are the ones that have reopened I should say, they've closed and then they've reopened depending on the pandemic. Is it students in that age group, younger students that are more likely to experience these setbacks during the pandemic, rather than older students, perhaps middle school and high school students?

Janelle: I think the sense is that this is really hard for all students at all levels and it just manifests in different ways. I think, in a very fluid situation in which data and information is coming piecemeal. The sense is that it is less risky to bring younger children back to school. Which is part of the decision in New York City made to bring the lower grades back in terms of COVID risk and the benefits that these children would get to be together with their teachers than their peers.

High school students are experiencing and middle school students are also experiencing incredible difficulty in remote learning environments. Difficulty concentrating, difficulty with boredom and restlessness and nervousness and anxiety. I think, all of our children, all of our students really do need supports in terms of their learning, whether it's in-person or remotely for the lifetime of this pandemic.

Tanzina: Janelle, we're also seeing college application rates, at least appear to be down this year, particularly for Latino students and low-income students. That's according to a report from the Washington Post. What does that indicate?

Janelle: I think we won't know definitively what it indicates until we can get a bit more information. I think in part, it could indicate some concern about starting college in remote fashion, and whether there's return on investment. Also, I think that we have over 20 million people claiming unemployment benefits right now, according to the Department of Labor. We have the eviction ban, issued by the CDC expires on December 31st.

Families are experiencing incredible economic precarity right now that I think we have not maybe paid enough attention to in relation to our conversations about schooling, whether it's K-12, or higher education. I worry and wonder that a part of the dip is because of the economic concerns that families are experiencing

Tanzina: Kalyn, how much of this is really a result of remote versus in-person learning differences? Are there differences in how students of color Black and Latino students, in particular low-income students are doing if they're in-person versus remote?

Kalyn: We have seen some surveys about how parents feel about the education that their children are getting. We know right now, it's still true that Black and Latino students are much more likely to be learning online. When we've surveyed parents, we've heard, concerns that they think virtual learning could be better, but they're relatively satisfied with it. They want school districts to spend a lot more time and money investing in improving the remote experience so that they can continue to help their kids learn virtually.

Tanzina: Kalyn, do we know if that's because parents are concerned about the health and safety issues, or are they saying that remote learning is better generally than in-person learning?

Kalyn: I think it's the first. I think we're still seeing a lot of concerns about health and safety due to COVID. The folks who are sending their children in-person on surveys, we are seeing much higher positivity rates about they think that in-person learning is better for kids. I think that is definitely true for parents of color as well.

Tanzina: Janelle, what do you think about whether or not the concerns of low-income parents are being heard? We know that generally when it comes to education and disparities, more affluent parents tend to get their voices heard by school districts, by school boards, by politicians. What about low-income parents and parents of color specifically?

Janelle: I think we're seeing as you noted, some divisiveness and with school reopening. With many parents of color, indicating that they prefer to stay remote out of concern that the safety measures that need to be in place in terms of COVID risk while not be in place for their children. In the schools where they often attend. Our schools are terribly segregated by race and socioeconomic status and also language. Parents, I think, have some legitimate and well-earned cynicism about whether the schools that their children attend will be equipped with appropriate PPE. Whether mask mandates will be enforced and whether the ventilation and infrastructure is there for their children to attend school safely.

I think there is some legitimate and well-earned concern and suspicion from parents of color, given their history with schools. I'm not sure the degree to which policymakers and school leaders are taking those concerns seriously and addressing them. I think that's part of the reason, as Kalyn has indicated, parents are saying, please invest in improving the remote experience. We can do that with ensuring that families have devices and access to high-speed internet and the like. Until we can get these other things in place in a physical in-person school situation, which I think parents of all races and socio-economic brackets would much prefer over remote options.

Tanzina: Kalyn, we've got about a minute left in this part of the conversation but I'm just curious. Schools are already strapped, teachers are already strapped for cash. Are many teachers that you're speaking to having to purchase their own PPE, for example, or their own other types of equipment, if they're doing in-person learning?

Kalyn: I've heard less about purchasing their own PPE and more about buying things that might make remote instruction or in-person teaching work better. We're seeing the donation services online see a huge spike in requests for education donation, so like DonorsChoose and things like that. That indicates I think that teachers do need things and are asking for help.

Tanzina: Janelle, we have an incoming presidential administration here and potentially a new department of education under Joe Biden. What are some federal policies that you're hoping to see that will help students and teachers, particularly those underfunded during the pandemic.

Janelle: We do have a new administration as yet to be named a new Secretary of Education. I think one of the things that would be helpful is really just an infusion of federal supports for schools to be able to provide PPE and implement the infrastructural improvements that are needed to do school in-person safely. The CARES Act, for example, allocated about $13 billion dollars to public schools in this country, but about half of that money is estimated, went to charter schools into some private schools. Really thinking about where the majority of school-aged children attend school and really investing at the federal level.

I think there's a lot the federal government can also do, given the pandemic has ongoing and long term health and well-being implications. Providing support for school psychologists and social workers and mental health supports in schools and communities, on an ongoing basis, would be a really wonderful federal investment. Then similarly, providing greater investments for childcare and early childhood education. I think those are some things the federal government could do right away, that would make a big impact in schools and communities.

Tanzina: Kalyn, we started the conversation talking about the New York City public school system, and it's the largest school district in the country. It is reopening again this week for in-person learning. This district has opened, it's closed, it's opened up again, it's closed, it's opened up again, because of the infection rates and we understand this is a public health crisis. There are districts across the country that have stayed remote during this entire time. How have they fared comparatively, or have the students in those districts fared comparatively to those who, like here in New York are going back and forth from remote to in-person. Has that had an effect on the performance of students?

Kalyn: In parent surveys, we have seen that parents are generally about as satisfied with the hybrid teaching, going back and forth between virtual and in-person as they are with remote. There may not be that much benefit when it comes to hybrid teaching, especially when it's interrupted, like you said, going back and forth. I think how students are faring remotely just depends on how much training were their teachers able to attain over the summer. A lot of places were just starting to do live instruction this fall for the very first time and so how much work teachers were able to prepare.

We know over the summer, a lot of folks were hoping to open in person and so they did not get the training and the help that they needed and so they started behind. Teachers who are juggling the simultaneous teaching where they might have virtual students and also students who are in person, those teachers have expressed very high levels of stress. They know that their instruction is not as high quality as it could be and that they're often shortchanging their virtual students who are at home. If you're a child at home with a teacher in-person, you may not be getting the experience that you deserve.

Tanzina: Janelle we're talking a little bit about the effect that this is having not just on students overall performance, but also on their mental health. Is that a critical part of making sure that students survive this really challenging year? If so, how do you implement something like that in a virtual landscape?

Janelle: Well, number one, I think we need to acknowledge that we are in a crisis. We feel this pull toward providing what looks like normal school for children, when these aren't normal times. This is a unique crisis in that its end is not totally clear and predictable. I think it requires, as we've been talking about not only additional preparation for teachers but really a rethinking of what robust schooling and learning looks like during a crisis.

I think there's a call and a need for approach to deeper learning more project-based learning and a focus on relationships and connection. To keep children curious and engaged in their own learning for when normal times emerge. We're not there yet and I think children and teachers are feeling the brunt of that. Are been asked to act as if things are normal and learn as if things are normal when they are not.

Tanzina: Kalyn, before we go, are there any broader education overhauls that we could expect the Biden administration to implement when they take office in the next couple of weeks?

Kalyn: President-Elect Biden has said that he supports the compromise stimulus legislation that's been floated, but that only contains $82 billion for schools. He has said that he wants a lot more than that overall spending. I think the big question is, are they able to get more money and can they spend some of that for addressing learning loss? That's something that the President-Elect has said he really wants to do. Can we implement widespread tutoring and more summer school and much more intensive supports for students? Which we know are probably going to be what students need. That's a really big, just open ended question. We're not really sure how the country is going to try to address all that.

Tanzina: There's a lot to think about as we head into this new administration. Janelle Scott is a professor of education at UC Berkeley and Kalyn Belsha is a national reporter for Chalkbeat Thanks so much to you both.

Kalyn: Thank you for having me.

Janelle: Thank you.

Tanzina: We asked you, parents, and caregivers, what you're seeing and how you might try to address these delays in the kids in your life. Here's what some of you have to say.

Evan: My name is Evan from Rockford, Illinois. My six-year-old daughter is struggling reading and math below where she needs to be. I believe she may need to repeat first grade if she doesn't get some extreme intervention this summer. I plan to get her in with a tutor service to help catch up but even with that, I know there are emotional and social struggles she has as well. She has no friends to hang out with her age and most of her time has been spent with her parents, grandparents, and little brother.

Andrew: Hi, this is Andrew in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Our kids have been touch-and-go with remote learning. They're both pretty social and they're social learners, so independent work while both parents are working is pretty difficult honestly. We're all managing pretty well together. We're taking it one day at a time but we're also trying not to stress out about objectives just about keeping their minds active.

Josie: This is Josie from Oxbridge. Well, my child is only four. This is supposed to be his first year in school. I don't have other children or friends with children so I was excited for him to finally get some practice with his social skills. My husband and I talk a lot about our concerns regarding his social development. We fear that he's behind, and this may have long-term effects on how he functions in society. My initial thought was to try and find other moms online that were COVID conscious and could be part of our bubble. There's nowhere to meet and the weather is getting colder. It's been really difficult. I guess we'll try school again next year hopefully.

Terry: Hi, this is Terry from Tabernash, Colorado. My grandson is very intelligent. He is bilingual in English and Russian and he's always done a great job of teaching himself things that interest him, like making sushi and forging steel. He is failing at online school and remote learning. I'm concerned about him but I trust he will be able to catch up when we get back to normal. Both his parents are well educated and have good jobs and we'll see that he gets tutoring or whatever help he needs. What really concerns me though, is the many kids in struggling situations who don't have his advantages and might fall through the cracks and never be able to catch up.

Kim: Hi, my name is Kim I'm in Brick, New Jersey. I was hired in August as a babysitter/nanny for two siblings, a male, five-years-old, and a girl seven. My main responsibility is to help them to navigate independent learning. The teachers are amazing. I am impressed every day at how they interact with the children and have expanded their own knowledge and use of technology.

The second-grader can work pretty independently. The five-year-old on the other hand needs constant and consistent redirecting. He's easily distracted by the dog, toys that are in his sight lines when he perceives that his sister is not working. Having to stare at a screen for hours on end. If we lived in a society where it wasn't so impossible to live without two incomes in a household, I could seriously see virtual learning becoming a part of our every day life.

Katt: My name is Katt from Polk County, Florida. I'ma testing coordinator for a high poverty high school in rural central Florida. A large number of our students have disengaged from the learning process. The school year began with two-thirds of our student population in E-learning, now a little over half remain in distance learning. That being said, loss of academic year although tragic can be recovered, loss of life due to COVID has no chance of regaining. What is loss?

Tanzina: So many of you told us that your primary concern is emotional and developmental delays this time might cause for your kids. We're going to dive into that in a future segment. If that's a concern for you, tell us what support you're getting or how you might address it. At 8778 my take that's (877) 869-8253. It's the Takeaway.

Copyright © 2021 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.