[music]

Announcer: Listener-supported, WNYC Studios.

Lulu: Hey, Lulu here. Whether we are romping through science, music, politics, technology, or feelings, we seek to leave you seeing the world anew. Radiolab adventures right on the edge of what we think we know wherever you get podcasts.

[music]

Kamala Harris: Good morning, [unintelligible 00:00:27]

News: Vice President Harris is a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated, one of the members of The Divine Nine.

News: We have chapters literally in every city, county.

Kamala Harris: When we organize, mountains move. When we mobilize, nations change. When we vote, we make history.

Speaker 6: You went to Howard, you're an AKA. Have you ski-weed once since you've been here?

Kamala Harris: I have not in front of a camera. To my line, sisters, the 38 jewls of iridescent splendor. Oh, you are such an incredible part of my journey, and I love you guys.

[pause 00:01:14]

[music]

Kai Wright: It's Notes from America. I'm Kai Wright. Welcome to the show. If you know anybody who went to Howard University or anybody who pledged Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, you know just how big of a deal both of those things are in most of their lives and their identities, Kamala Harris included, as you just heard her say. If Kamala Harris wins the presidency, she will obviously be a first in many ways. One of her firsts may offer a unique insight on who she is and how she encounters the world.

She would be the first President who is a graduate of a historically Black college and a member of what's been called The Divine Nine Black-Greek organizations. Why does that matter? In some ways, this is American culture, right? Alumni groups and sororities and fraternities have long been social pillars. These institutions play a particular and intensely influential role in the Black community because of their own history as institutions built to sustain a Black middle class in a society and an economy that, at least until my mother's graduating class, was legally segregated by race and gender.

This week, we're going to learn some of that history and then try to place Kamala Harris inside of it. What might we learn about her by considering her time at Howard University in the mid-1980s? I'm first joined by Lawrence Ross Jr. He's the author of the book The Divine Nine: The History of African-American fraternities and Sororities. Lawrence, welcome to Notes from America.

Lawrence Ross: I'm glad to be here.

Kai: The Divine Nine is a phrase that news consumers are now hearing a lot because of Kamala Harris, but you actually are credited with coining that phrase.

Lawrence: I never like to take credit for it because you never know what's actually out in the zeitgeist when you're doing something. It is like having a genesis story and just concretely saying it. I can say that my book probably popularized the phrase.

Kai: Popularized the phrase. So it's a reference to the nine Black fraternities and sororities, nine of them. I won't take through all of them. You are Alpha Phi Alpha.

Lawrence: Of course.

Kai: Kamala Harris is Alpha Kappa Alpha. My father was Kappa Alpha Psi. I did not walk this particular path. Tell us about the origin of these institutions. Why were they created in the first place?

Lawrence: The first thing you have to recognize is that when we talk about fraternities and sororities in general, we talk about predominantly white fraternities, actually white fraternities and white sororities. It's a really pretty recent phenomenon in terms of, for example, white sororities, they were actually white fraternities. They had occurred maybe about 40 years prior. What was happening is that around the early part of the 20th century, you started to have more African-Americans going to college.

It still was like 1/3 of 1% going to college universities out of the African-American population. It was a very small percentage. It was a very small percentage of white Americans going to college. There was also this notion that, obviously, about 10 years after Plessy versus Ferguson, which really codified legal segregation in this country, there was this need to be able to have an elite within the Black community, which technically the idea was basically the elite would go back and be able to lift up everyone else. Hence the idea of the talented 10th.

Kai: Just some the important context really quick here, because people hear that and they always blow past understanding the historical moment, the notion of white supremacy. The cornerstone idea of white supremacy at the time was that Black people could not biologically achieve things left to their own devices.

Lawrence: Right. It was inherent. It was a combination of things. It was both this notion of inherent inferiority in terms of Blackness being an inherently inferior. Also, the notion, surprisingly, this notion that in a pluralistic society that America is, how if these are so-called inferior people, how do you have a pluralistic society? How do you set it up? The setting it up was Jim Crow segregation, which was not a good thing for Black folks.

In lieu of this, this basically created this notion of this idea amongst a lot of college students is that they were not only getting their education for their own edification or their own movement within the socioeconomic society, being able to go move into the middle class, they also had a responsibility. Social fraternities and sororities became that mechanism. That wasn't what social fraternities and sororities were about prior to the establishment of the nine African-American fraternities and sororities.

Kai: Right. That they were trendsetters in saying, "Okay, this is an organization for the explicit purpose of taking our college education, taking get back to our communities and trying to be the talented 10th with all of the baggage of that, both good and bad that comes with that."

Lawrence: Remember, the talented 10th was coined by W. B. Dubois, and who later on pretty much disavowed the whole idea of the talented 10th. The whole notion of working together was the catalyst for the fraternities and sororities and why they became very popular in the early ages. It was a combination of a multiple combination. It was both the connected tissue of the grander vision of ideals and principles connected to philanthropy, connected to social justice, and social action.

Also, fraternities and sororities acted also as a part of your social resume. It was all part of what was your church, what other organizations that you belong to. It really denoted your status within African-American society. You have those combinations working together. The political activism has been there from pretty much the start. It's oftentimes you find the organizations working collectively as a collective organization or individual members who are representing their organizations in different institutions that are propelling the African-American race forward.

Kai: Just to put a fine point on why we're even talking about this. Plenty of presidential candidates have been members of white sororities. Why does this history do you think matter when we think about Kamala Harris and her relationship to The Divine Nine, which is such an important part of her self-story, the way the story she tells of herself?

Lawrence: It's an integral part of the story. I always laugh because Kamala is from Oakland. I went to Berkeley. If I get to tell her, I'm like, "I pledged a year before you." No, one of the things that occurs is that the difference between predominantly white fraternities and sororities and predominantly Black fraternities and sororities. When I say this, don't get me wrong. Members who are members of predominantly white fraternities and sororities, they do great work, philanthropy work, they love their organizations, but it's primarily a college experience.

It ends a college. That's it. They look back on it and they typically talk about in their past, I was a member of XYZ organization. That is diametrically opposed to The Divine Nine. When you become a member of The Divine Nine, we look for it as being a lifelong commitment to the organization. Even when you're dead, we may say, "He was a wonderful dentist, he was a wonderful father, and he is a member of Alpha Phi Alpha," or whatever the organization.

Because the notion is that you continue to work all through your life, and that's your life commitment to the organization as you work in the community or as you represent your organization.

Kai: It continues to shape you as well, right? We can assume that AKA, Alpha Kappa Alpha has continued to be part of Kamala Harris's life as an adult and now in her vice presidency. With that in mind, talk to us about AKA. What do we need to know about AKA? Their colors are famously pink and green. But what are they generally known for? All of these organizations have a particular brand, a particular idea of who they are. What is AKA?

Lawrence: I think Alpha Kappa Alpha really leans into two different things. They lean into, obviously, the academics in terms of what they're trying to do in terms of the development of their young college sisters on college campuses, and they lean into their social activism. Now, when we talk about, I think what you're alluding to is what the notion of all the different organizations. All the organizations have an outward brand of what they look like or what they're doing or what they present to the world. I tend not to work upon that mainly because one of the things that allow--

Kai: You don't think it's true. You don't think these-- Do you think there's still [crosstalk]?

Lawrence: No, no, no. It's not that. No, I think the stereotypes are a shorthand for the things that really do work. It is a shorthand for trying to understand an organization, but really don't give you the full width and breadth of the work that organizations actually do. I always say that fraternalism basically happens at the bottom of your feet, meaning that you're doing projects that really require a lot of effort and you do things for people who don't know you exist, but you help them go to college or you do tutoring or you do whatever, voter registration.

For Alpha Kappa Alpha, Alpha Kappa Alpha pretty much from the start has been one of the leading Black women's organizations. One of the founders is Lucy Slowe, who was the first dean of women at Howard University. Really a groundbreaker in many, many ways. Ida L. Jackson, I'm a little partial to Ida L. Jackson, the ninth president of Alpha Kappa Alpha, she went to Berkeley. She was one of the spearheads of the Mississippi Health Project, which happened in the 1930s.

That was going out there into the Mississippi Delta, into the poorest areas, and recognizing that in Mississippi in the archives, they would say that there were a lot of people out there who never tasted fruit because they were that nutritionally deficient. Then you see Alpha Kappa Alpha doing things like their Cleveland Job Corps. They do a lot of really good penetrative types of work and that happens within the 700 different alumni and undergraduate chapters.

That's what presents itself when you talk about why a person becomes a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha. Now if you're talking about if you're going to lean into the stereotypes and things like that, Alpha Kappa Alphas are known as being beautiful women. It is almost like the unofficial motto is that we do serious work. It's a serious matter with Alpha Kappa Alpha, but they do it beautifully, and they're known for being well put together. They're really known for presenting themselves really well, put together too.

Kai: The elite amongst the elite, but also the activist. Lawrence Ross Jr. is the author of the book, The Divine Nine: The History of African American Fraternities and Sororities. Thank you for this primer, Lawrence.

Lawrence: Absolutely. No problem. Thank you.

Kai: Next, we will consider how all of this history might have shaped Kamala Harris when she showed up at Howard University and we can take your calls if you attended Howard or another HBCU, or you pledged one of The Divine Nine, especially if you were a student in the mid-'80s. Maybe you can offer us insight into how it might shape Kamala Harris and how she moves through the world. I'm Kai Wright. This is Notes from America. More just ahead.

[pause 00:12:50]

[music]

It's Notes from America. I'm Kai Wright. We are talking this week about a part of Kamala Harris's history that in her own words, meaningfully shaped her sense of self. That's her time in the mid-1980s as a student at the historically Black Howard University and her membership in Alpha Kappa Alpha, a historically Black sorority that has played a huge role in Black middle-class society and politics for many, many generations.

I'm joined now by two people who know this history well. Christina Greer is a political scientist at Fordham University, where she studies the wide diversity of Black political life. Welcome back to the show, Christina.

Christina: Be with you, Kai.

Kai: Natalie Hopkinson is an associate professor of journalism at American University and real talk, a scholar of all things Black DC. She's the author of Go-Go Live: The Musical Life and Death of a Chocolate City, and important for this conversation, she is an alum of Howard University. Natalie, hello stranger, and welcome to Notes from America.

Natalie: Hi Kai. So great to see you.

Kai: Listeners, we can take your calls if you attended Howard or another HBCU or you pledged one of The Divine Nine, I guess really anywhere, especially if you were a student in the mid-1980s. Maybe you can offer a little insight into how you think it might've shaped the way Harris moves through the world. We can also just take your questions about Kamala Harris and this particular piece of history. Natalie, Harris graduated from Howard in 1986. Take us to that time at the university. What would've been the scene around her campus in the mid-1980s? What do you think?

Natalie: The mid-1980s, this was Peak Chocolate City, 1986.

Kai: George Clinton's Chocolate City. For anyone who doesn't get the reference, George Clinton's Parliament Funkadelic made the album called it, This is Chocolate City. Go ahead.

Natalie: That's right. He was talking about Chocolate City. He actually was praising several Chocolate City Cleveland, Atlanta, everywhere that had elected Black mayors, but he said, but you're the capital CC. DC has a special place. Basically, 1986, Washington DC and Howard University is a very chocolate world with chocolate leadership in all corners. It's a very empowering place to really learn and come into yourself as a professional.

There's a lot of South Africa apartheid movement protests. Howard is a place that has a real history of student protests, which Kamala reportedly participated in both of those.

Kai: It was also a tough time in DC in some ways. This was a time when the crack epidemic was raging and there was a lot of crime in the city.

Natalie: Yes. There was a lot of white flight following the 1968 riots after Martin Luther King was assassinated, but then there was also a lot of Black middle-class flight as well. The chocolate center is Black. It's very, very Black, but it's also a lot of the resources have been taken out. As you mentioned, there is a drug epidemic that's happening. Crack cocaine is a new I guess technology, a way of delivering the drug that made it accessible to everyone.

It really was causing a lot of problems and a lot of unrest in the city. But a lot of people who were around during that time, those are what the headlines were, but people who were actually at Howard and a lot of DC natives who were here during that time, they looked upon that time as just a beautiful flowering of possibilities, of Black power, a lot of Black culture. Spike Lee had visited the campus and actually recruited EU, the go-go band to perform in his film School Days which also addressed the HBCU culture. It's really looked on as kind of a golden age.

Kai: I think about that, we've done some shows on this as well, just all of the political organizing and cultural organizing that was happening in DC, Black gay community amongst other things, it was a vibrant moment. Christina, I brought up the crime and crack epidemic that was happening at the time, which coincided with a tough-on-crime era politically. What is the Black political context of the mid-1980s that Kamala Harris would've been witnessing as she was coming into her own in DC at Howard University?

Christina: We can't forget that DC sits in the nation's capital. As Howard students are seeing the disinvestment of Washington, DC as a city, you've got Ronald Reagan and then George H. W. Bush pushing policies that are directly affecting not just Black communities, but communities across the country. You have the rise of Marion Barry, who I would argue is one of the greatest mayors to ever come out of any municipality.

Latter Marion Barry is obviously what most people know, but the earlier Marion Berry as a city council member, and then turned mayor to really help the city go against some of the really draconian policies that Ronald Reagan was implementing that specifically targeted Black communities. They're witnessing this tension between the federal government and Reaganomics and what municipalities, especially in Chocolate City, are trying to do to preserve the city and make sure that the city stays to be a Chocolate City.

Something that Marion Barry was very keenly aware of. I live in a city, as you can hear the sirens in the background. Sorry about that.

Kai: It's all right. Also then just what were the priorities? So there's this moment where there were all of these Black electeds in cities around the country. I'm curious what their lead priorities would've been that might've shaped how Kamala Harris saw the world. Not coincidentally, I think, she began her career as a prosecutor, and I wonder if we know how much of that is about. What were the jobs and what were the kinds of politics that these new Black electeds were trying to pursue at the time?

Christina: As Natalie laid out, it wasn't just white flight, but it was also middle-class flight. There are a lot of conversations that students are having on college campuses, not just HBCUs, as to what is our responsibility as Black people in this country. Do we make money? Someone has to pay for the revolution. Do we work from the inside? Do we go into politics and try and change policy that way? You're in Washington, DC. Do you go the legal route? We're seeing these draconian policies, putting Black people away in droves for largely crack cocaine offenses.

Do you become a prosecutor so you can make sure that someone is there watching the store to make sure that white prosecutors don't just put away Black people in mass? I think that the conversations that a lot of young people are having is like, "What is the responsibility as Black people with this privilege and now education?" Anyone who went to Howard, HU, Bisons, the incredibly strong network, and dare I say, fraternity, sorority of alums.

So you have people who see themselves as active participants in our democracy and trying to figure out which way best works for them. As Kamala Harris chooses the prosecutorial route, it's not because she's excited about putting Black people away. It's because someone has to be there to make sure there's a stopgap to look out for Black people who are caught up in the system.

Keep in mind this is also in the shadow of Jesse Jackson running for the presidency in 1984 and then running again in 1988 with a real wind behind his sails, where he, up until Hillary Clinton in 2008, was the closest second-place runner in the history of democratic politics in modern history.

Kai: There's an enormous amount of energy around Black elected officials, I guess, is part of the point, too. There's problems to be solved, and there's a lot of people who want to get into politics and are succeeding at it. I can imagine that that would be infectious to a young Kamala Harriss. Natalie, Christina was talking about how Howard, and you were talking about as well, like this rich history of Howard and its own political involvement.

Help people understand Howard University and how its students-- See, we've been talking about AKA and the relationship that people have for a long time into their adulthood with Alpha Kappa Alpha, but Howard students have a real deep tie to this place. Help people understand that.

Natalie: Howard was something that was started after the Civil War. It was General Otis Howard. It has a real focus on freedom, freedom struggles really from then. So everybody's there. You're not just getting an education. You're also seeking freedom as a Black person, as a Black community. It really does shape you. The way that the curriculum is also shaped around Black identity throughout the diaspora, historically, it is really-- I always say going to Howard is like imagine being a white man for four years because everything is about you.

Everything is in your image. You get really bonded to the other people who are there, bonded to your professors. And as Lawrence was saying about the AKA, it's something that stays with you for your whole life.

Kai: I've been referring to the Black middle class throughout this conversation. All these institutions are an important part of the Black middle class. One listener asks, which fair is like, "Well, what do you mean by that?" Basically, what are we talking about when we say the Black middle class, and how different would it be from the white middle class?

There's a bunch of economic answers to that. If either of you want to hop in on that, please do. More broadly, when we're talking about the Black middle class and why it's distinct, how would you describe about why it's a distinct thing? Let's start with you, Christina.

Christina: [laughs] How much time do you have? At this point, I think we have had many conversations about the lack of generational wealth that has been created specifically and explicitly for whites in this country. We can talk about the G.I. bill, we can just talk about redlining, we can talk about a lot of things, but when we say Black middle class, some of it is geographic as to what kinds of neighborhoods you have lived in. Some of it is, have you been a part of these institutions, that is, these historically Black colleges and universities?

Have you pledged these sororities and fraternities, or have parents or grandparents who pledged them? Were you a member of Jack and Jill? Some of it is even where did you summer? Did you go to Martha's Vineyard or Sag Harbor, these historical places where Black people who have traditionally been excluded from white spaces and places have created their own communities and networks, which is largely the bigger piece to share information, to share economic uplift, to intermarry.

These are ways that, in so many ways, race and racism are the fabric and the details of this entire nation. It's not just enough for Black people to survive, but in order to thrive, we've had to essentially know two worlds. White world and our world. What is still so fascinating to me is that there's so little that the vast majority of white people know about Black people and our histories. These are organizations that are over a century years old, and most people have never heard of the nine fraternities and sororities that have existed.

Most people had never heard of the term HBCU before Kamala Harris came on the national stage, so Black people have had to create their own worlds for economic, social, and racial uplift within our own spheres because we've traditionally been excluded from the white worlds. That has created its own Black middle class over time, where we have shared networks, economics, and lifestyles amongst other people. Yes, as Lawrence tapped into the Talented Tenth, but it extends beyond that.

It's one of those things where it's also a shortcut in a lot of ways where you can say certain things to people about colleges or networks or organizations that you're a part of the Boulé or links or whatever it may be, and that's a way that Black people have continued information sharing, information gathering, and the like.

Kai: Natalie, what about class in general inside the community? These are colleges and universities. You have to be at a college to be at any of these institutions and to be at any of these Divine Nine organizations. Again, if we're trying to understand this stuff, to try to understand what we might know about Kamala Harris. Howard as a campus is a place, when we think about class among Black people, is it a multi-class campus? Is it an elite campus like Harvard? How would you describe the income range and the class range that's on Howard's campus?

Natalie: I would say it's definitely multi-class. You have a good number of first-generation college students that go to Howard. There is, and that was my experience, I had no idea that there were these very old families, some who had never been in slavery, some who could trace their families back for much longer than I can. The university also, like any university, it has the same town-gown tensions in the community around Howard University.

The whole point of the university it's credentialing, so it's a way to enter into the middle class. You get that credential that you need. Howard is a great engine of the middle class because you are credentialing thousands of people at once. You're really a very convenient stop for recruiters and pretty much every industry, they're coming to Howard to be able to integrate their workplaces. There is a strong middle class, and there's even elitist tensions around elitism, as well at Howard.

It's a beautiful microcosm of the Black world as a whole because you'll hear different languages spoken. You'll hear people are from all over the diaspora, from the Caribbean, from parts of Africa, Europe. People come from all over the place to Howard. It's one of the places where you cannot make any assumption over any person who you meet on that campus because they could be janitors, they could come from solid working-class families, or they could come from some of the wealthiest Black families that we have.

It's a wonderful experience, and that's why it makes it very liberating to be there because nobody can make any assumptions about you, and you can't make any assumptions about them based on you being Black.

Kai: Why would you argue it matters to talk about this when we're thinking about Kamala Harris? To get to the core of the question, how do you think it has shaped her?

Natalie: I can only imagine. I think that it's an experience that it grounds you. It grounds you in your identity. You get so planted. You learn so much about your history as a Black person in this world. You learn so much context. You learn everything that they're learning at Harvard, but then you also learn what you need to know as a Black person. What it means is that you really come out of this place, I would say, early with your chest puffed out because you feel so proud of the struggle. You feel so proud of who you are.

And it's very difficult to push you off of that grounding once you're solidified. To do it when you're 17 to 21 years old is a perfect time to get that grounding, and it really prepares you to enter and to go to battle outside of Howard in a way that I think a lot of people have taken advantage of that preparation that you get there.

Kai: I'm Kai Wright. This is Notes From America. I'm talking with Fordham University political scientist Christina Greer and American University journalism professor Natalie Hopkinson about the specifically Black college experience that shaped Kamala Harris. We can take your questions for our guests, call or text. More just ahead and more of your submissions to our third annual Notes from America summer playlist. Stay with us.

[pause 00:30:07]

Regina de Heer: Hi, I'm Regina, a producer here at Notes from America with Kai Wright. I know, I know. You're loving this episode. I promise I won't hold you long, but I have to ask, have you seen what we're up to on Instagram? That's where we post questions to you that help shape the conversations that we have on this podcast. Plus, it's a great way to keep up with the show. Follow Notes With Kai on Instagram,. That's @noteswithkai, and we'll talk to you there. Thanks for listening.

[music]

Kai: It is Notes From America. I'm Kai Wright. We're talking this week about a part of Kamala Harris's history that in her own words, shaped a lot of her journey. That's her time in the mid-1980s as a student at the historically Black University, Howard University, and her membership in Alpha Kappa Alpha, a historically Black sorority that has played a large role in the Black middle class in society and in politics for many generations.

I'm joined by Christina Greer, a political scientist at Fordham University, where she studies the diversity of Black political life, and by Natalie Hopkinson, an Associate Professor of Journalism at American University and author of Go-Go Live: The Musical Life and Death of a Chocolate City, among other books. AKA, Alpha Kappa Alpha has organized a PAC in this election. Christina, is that a new thing? Do the Divine Nine typically create PACs? Is this a first thing or is it just the first time many of us are taking notice?

Christina: No, I think that this is one of the more historic political action committees that's been formed to support a federal candidate. We know that there's a long, robust history of Black people supporting political candidates, but this is Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated. They've got more than 2.5 million active members across the country. This is addressing Harris's historic run for the next few months.

I don't know the specifics of various PACs that have been around in the past, say from the Obama years. We know that fundraising has been robust and donations have been robust from sororities in a bundling capacity but this PAC is pretty historic.

Kai: Just make sure we got the numbers right because we still got Lawrence Ross around, he's helping us out. There are 300,000 members in AKA, but 2.5 million-

Christina: Total. Sorry, of all the Divine Nine's.

Kai: -total people in Divine Nine.

Christina: Yes.

Kai: Which is a lot of people, PS, in either scenario. How much in previous elections, Christina, how much do you think just political organizing out of these organizations has mattered? Did we see it, for instance, with Stacey Abrams in Georgia? Did it matter? Where have we seen these organizations flex in the past?

Christina: Right. We know that in a presidential election, a robust participatory percentage is 60% of the voting-eligible population bothers to show out, but we know that Black Americans disproportionately participate, especially Black women, roughly at 95% Black women identify with the Democratic Party. What we've seen in the past is not just financial and economic organizing, but getting souls to the polls. Many Black electeds, if they aren't members of a fraternity or sorority themselves, they're honorary members of a fraternity or sorority.

They go to the conventions and they obviously have a captive audience. We do know, as Natalie has laid out as did Lawrence, there's a class component. You have to be in college to even begin this process. There are many grad chapters that people participate in, but there's an educational component to a lot of the sororities and fraternities. That also puts people in a slightly different class perspective.

The money and organizing capacities that we've seen in various elections, obviously with Barack Obama, but in gubernatorial races and then in this election cycle and Senate races across the country. Take for example, Lisa Blunt Rochester in Delaware, she's running for Senate. She's already the one member of the house, but her late husband is was a member of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Incorporated. You've seen the, we call them Qs, we've seen the Qs very active in assisting her, in her campaign.

It's a multi-pronged perspective that a lot of fraternities and sororities take when it comes to getting folks elected. For example I just think about Jesse Jackson running in '84 and '88. He's a member of Omega Psi Phi, as my dad. Going to the conclave where you have thousands upon thousands of Black men and their families. This is in the '80s when people used to bring their families to the conclave. I'm wearing a shirt that says, "I am somebody," because my daddy's a Q but that was the mantra of Jesse Jackson.

Using your fraternal or sorority organization as a way to mobilize people, first in your direct sorority or fraternity, then the broader Divine Nine, then the broader Black middle-class community, then the broader Black community, I think it's been a strategy for a lot of politicians.

Kai: Natalie, are you surprised by how big a deal this has been? From the moment I guess part of it was because she gave that speech to AKA right before. It was either right before or after she became the presumptive nominee. But were you surprised at how big a deal this part of her life has been in the way we've talked about her in the last month?

Natalie: Not at all. I was just recently reading. Tanisha Ford has a book that just came out called Our Secret Society that talked about the fundraising for the Urban League. This is really what's been really important about the Divine Nine throughout history. They played a very important role in financing the Civil Rights movement. It's underappreciated but if they weren't involved also raising money among the Black elite, the Civil Rights Movement would've only been funded by white funders.

Which of course makes a difference. It makes a difference who's funding and who's writing the checks. They've always played this role since their founding. You saw a lot of the win with Black women organizers. I think a lot of them are deltas. I don't have a dog in any of these fights.

Kai: Oh, really?

Natalie: I'm not member of any of these organizations, but I think a lot of the win for Black women are deltas. Just to be clear, these women have been organizing, they've put a lot of pressure on Biden to make sure that he chose a Black woman to be his running mate. They've been extremely powerful forces as far as just beyond specific sorority, Black women as a political force have really been flexing in the last four years and it's been wonderful to see. Then you see how they've just made an example of they've got all these other identity groups. Jewish women for Kamala, white guys for Kamala.

Kai: Yes, there was the long list of [crosstalk] that came out of it.

Natalie: Everybody's but it started with Black women and they've been doing this for many years, formally at least the last four years, but then 100 years before then, Black women have been organizing for a long time.

Kai: Christina in our last couple of minutes here, we're headed into the Democratic National Convention, how would you soberly describe the state of this race? There's all this enthusiasm around Democrats but stepping back for that from a moment, what's your take about where this stands entering the Democratic Party convention?

Christina: Well, it's no denying that. Obviously Kamala Harris has injected a lot of energy into the Democratic Party and leading into the DNC. There's a great excitement. There's lots of people who are fired up, and I keep reminding folks, it's one thing to be fired up, it's another thing to be ready to work. The fundraising calls have been obviously inspiring, so many different demographics, but are you doing the hard work and the heavy lifting to essentially evangelize to your relatives?

That's your aunts and your mothers, your fathers, your uncles, your brothers who are still steadfastly in the Republican party and drinking the Kool-Aid of Donald Trump and his antics and his policies that are trying to drag America back a hundred years. It's not enough anymore just to pat yourself on the back and say, "I voted for Barack Obama twice and I'm planning on voting for Kamala Harris." It's, are you doing the hard work to talk to all the different people in your community to help them understand?

Everything from reproductive justice, to immigration, to LGBTQ plus rights, to the environment, to economics, to transportation. You can go down the list and see all the differences. Is the energy great? Yes. Has the roll-out been fantastic? Absolutely. But let's be clear, white women have only voted for the Democratic Party candidate in modern history two times since we started collecting the data in 1952.

They've only voted for the Democrat in '64 and '96. You don't want to Hillary Clinton yourself and assume that you have white women on your side just because you're a woman. You don't want to assume that you have white women on your side because they didn't vote for Barack Obama either. There we are.

Kai: Well, she's got these Divide Nine organizations on her side. That seems to be the case. Christina Greer is a political scientist at Fordham University where she studies the diversity of Black political life. Natalie Hopkinson is an associate professor of journalism at American University and author of Go-Go Live: The Musical Life and Death of a Chocolate City. Thanks to both of you. And for those listeners who are graduates of historically black colleges and universities, you didn't call us maybe while we were talking, but you still can, (844) 745-8255. Just leave a voicemail.

In last week's show, we asked you for contributions to our third annual Notes from America summer playlist. Each summer, we build a Spotify playlist from your submissions based on a prompt. This summer, we're asking what's a song that represents your political identity or political priorities this election year. You have certainly answered. The show last week was a lot of fun. If you missed it, check it out. It's in your podcast feed right now.

We took a bunch of submissions from you live. But then the calls kept coming in after the show, and they're still coming. First off, thank you for being so game to play with us this year, and I want to share more of what you've been telling us. Here are some of your ongoing responses.

Bryn: Hi, my name is Bryn from Dallas, and my submission for your summer playlist is War Isn't Murder by Jesse Welles.

[MUSIC - Jesse Welles: War Isn't Murder]

This is an amazing anti-war song that I think speaks to the concerns and issues that resonate with a lot of younger people, especially in the current political climate. Jesse Welles has been in the music scene for a bit, but a few of his songs have recently blown up on TikTok, which is where I discovered him.

[MUSIC - Jesse Welles: War Isn't Murder]

Aman: Hello, my name is Aman. I am calling from Asheville, North Carolina. First-time listener. I've been enjoying the show so far. I was moved by this prompt because Black music in general is just rife with political discourse. I love talking about this because there's some great, great songs. The song that I would like to submit is Fuck the Police, excuse my language, maybe I should say F the police by N.W.A.

[MUSIC - N.W.A.: Fuck Tha Police]

That's one of my all-time favorite songs. Quite literally all of the lyrics in that song relate to what is currently happening with the police in the Black community in the last 20-some-odd years. I love that it's an older song speaking to an older time, but it's still happening.

[pause 00:42:53]

[MUSIC - N.W.A.: Fuck Tha Police]

Terry Ring: Hi, this is Terry Ring from Cary, North Carolina. I'm calling with my song. It is Wake Up Everybody by Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes. I know it's an oldie, but it's just as relevant now as it was in the '70s when it first came out. The line that is most significant to me is, "The world won't get no better."

[MUSIC - Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes: Wake Up Everybody]

"If we just let it be."

[MUSIC - Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes: Wake Up Everybody]

"We got to change it, just you and me." That's the way I feel with 2024 with carrots and walls. I think we're going to change it. Thanks very much.

[MUSIC - Harold Melvin & the Blue Notes: Wake Up Everybody]

Eunice: Hi, my name's Eunice. I'm calling from Clemson, South Carolina. I like the song Have You Seen My Friend? by Angela Easterling. As a mother, I like some of the lyrics like, '"Shall I tell my kids about her?" Meaning America. "Oh, I wished that they could see her through my eyes. Will they know her like I did, a clean and shining light in the world, like a star up in the sky? Was she ever really like that? Or did she have even me fooled back then?" It talks about how America is beautiful and how we can make it that way. It inspires me whenever I hear it to make America better for future generations.

[pause 00:44:48]

[MUSIC - Angela Easterling: Have You Seen My Friend]

Sarah: Hi, this is Sarah from Tucson, Arizona. I wanted to give us a mission. The song is We Belong by Namoli Brennet.

[pause 00:45:16]

[MUSIC - Namoli Brennet: We Belong]

The song is about exclusion in general, and specifically transgender exclusion. I'm a trans woman. I feel particularly excluded by the right and I wanted to add this song to the list if I can.

[MUSIC - Namoli Brennet: We Belong]

Elizabeth: Hi, Kai and team. This is Elizabeth from Cleveland Heights. My two songs are Santé by Stromae, the Belgian singer-rapper who's half Rwandan half Flemish. The other one is Pa'l Norte by Calle 13, the Puerto Rican hip-hop band. Both of these are multilingual songs. Santé is about all the people who do the work to get parties and events ready. It's a populist song essentially about thinking and remembering all the people who actually make right our political machines possible.

[MUSIC - Stromae: Santé]

Then Pa'l Norte is about immigration, which is my number one issue in politics.

[MUSIC - Calle 13: Pa'l Norte]

I think it's important to include non-English songs in the playlist because we are a multilingual nation and we don't have a national language. Thanks, just wanted to add those. Take care.

[MUSIC - Calle 13: Pa'l Norte]

Kai: Thank you all so much for your submissions. Our team has just had so much fun going through your responses, whether they're coming in by voicemail, email, or text message. Thank you also for your thoughtful explanations of why you're choosing these songs. Some of them have really shown some vulnerabilities. We see you go in that extra mile. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You can go listen to the whole playlist now. Find it by going to the bio in our Instagram page. Our handle there is @noteswithkai.

We'll also put a link in the episode notes of the podcast. And if you haven't chimed in yet, there is still time to add your submission. This is going on all summer. You can just leave a message at (844) 745-8255 or you can email a voice memo to notes@wnyc.org. Either way, please make sure to share your first name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about what the song represents for you in the context of this very political summer. We can't wait to hear more from you.

Notes from America is a production of WNYC Studios. Follow us wherever you get podcasts. This episode was produced by Siona Peterous and Regina de Heer. Theme music by Jared Paul. Mixing and sound design this week by Mike Kutchman. Milton Ruiz was our live engineer. Our team also includes Katerina Barton, Karen Froman, Suzanne Gaber, Varshita Korrapati, and Lindsay Foster Thomas. Again, our Instagram is a great way to keep up with what all those producers are working on.

We seed a lot of our ideas and a lot of our questions for you there, so check us out. We're at Notes with Kai. I'm Kai Wright. Thanks for spending time with us.

[pause 00:48:57]

 

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record