Melissa Harris-Perry: This is The Takeaway. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry. Love them or hate them, Crocs are having a moment.

Speaker 2: Yo, I finally found the perfect pair of Crocs for me.

Speaker 3: Crocs on the beach.

Speaker 4: Crocs. I just received my Cinnamon Toast Crunch Crocs.

Speaker 5: I bought my daughter some Crocs.

Speaker 6: Crocs. Slide your feet in, and now you're good to go.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Sales for the spongy, rubber-like clogs have soared since the beginning of the pandemic. Once dismissed as unfashionable or flat-out uncool, Crocs have made a comeback in a big way, gracing the feet of fashion influencers and even making their way onto the red carpet. Some of the styles with celebrity shoe collaborations like Bad Bunny's 2020 Crocs retail for hundreds of dollars.

Jordyn Holman: My name is Jordyn Holman. I'm a business reporter.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Jordyn recently reported on Crocs for The New York Times, so I was excited to ask her, "How did these holy slip-on clogs go from a fashion sin to a fashion statement, and what does it mean for our feet and our nation?"

Jordyn Holman: Crocs are those clunky clogs that you see. They have the holes on the top, they have the slip in the back. They were really popular in the mid-aughts, but they have come back with a vengeance over the course of the pandemic, where you basically see anyone from teenagers, medical professionals, just mothers wearing Crocs. It makes sense. They're easy to slip on, they're comfortable, all of those things, but they've really taken on a life of their own over the past few years.

Melissa Harris-Perry: What are some of the reasons that people would choose these? As you point out, they're clunky-looking, they look like they're made of rubbery material. Why choose that over more traditional sandals or clogs?

Jordyn Holman: It's part utility. During the pandemic, we were just hanging out around our house. It's easy to slip on, they provide support, so if you're in the garden or if you're cooking, but then also, they're colorful. You make them what you want of them with the Jibbitz, so they're personalized. That's why people keep coming back to Crocs.

Melissa Harris-Perry: What's been stunning to me about Crocs is now folks are out here in these US streets with Crocs on as an outfit, like as genuinely part of the whole fit. What is going on in terms of the marketing that made that possible?

Jordyn Holman: Absolutely. Crocs, when they first were introduced were actually introduced as boat shoes. They premiered at the annual boat convention because you can get them wet, they're comfortable to walk around on. That's where they stood. It was this utility shoe. Then you got more into the fashion, but over the past few years, it's really the fact that celebrities like Questlove will wear them on the red carpet. It just elevates them. Crocs also started having new models of shoes, so they're in sandals, they have platforms. I think that's what got people more comfortable wearing it out and about.

Some people I talked to about their love for Crocs, they honestly got converted because they saw their neighbors wearing Crocs out on the streets, and it made them feel more confident to say, "Hey, I could do that too. These aren't just my house shoes anymore. These are shoes that I can wear on the subway. They might start a conversation." Unlike other footwear where you just wear it, you see it around, but it actually is a conversation starter. That's what's making it have this viral moment.

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right. On this point of viral moment and conversation starter, let's talk about Jibbitz. Now, there might be some folks, and I get this, who haven't had the full Jibbit experience, but this is part of the youth discourse right around Crocs that is maybe a little different from how older folks wear it. Presumably, most older folks are just putting their Crocs on, but the Jibbitz create this capacity to make it a highly individualized shoe.

Jordyn Holman: Absolutely, yes. The Jibbitz are whatever you want to make of them. They have [unintelligible 00:04:24] Jibbitz, animal Jibbitz, Margaritaville Jibbitz, the Hello nametags Jibbitz, literally thousands of [unintelligible 00:04:32] of Jibbitz. They're really inexpensive on a whole. You can get them for $5. You can get a pack of six for like $20. What Jibbitz does, it hits on a very specific retail trend, personalization. A lot of people nowadays don't just want the cookie-cutter shoe or outfit or what have you, they want to be able to show who they are as a person.

Jibbitz is exactly that because not only can you put them in one of your Crocs, in the holes of the Crocs, but maybe you want to switch it up and actually put it in your purple one or your glitter one or what have you. It's like all these iterations of personalization. It just takes it to the next level, and that's why Crocs is adding to its virality. It's not just a shoe, now it's taking on a life of its own with the Jibbitz.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Quick break. More on The Takeaway in just a moment.

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Melissa Harris-Perry: This is The Takeaway. I'm Melissa Harris-Perry, and I'm still with New York Times business reporter, Jordyn Holman, talking about Crocs. Now, Jordyn's reporting shows that the recent resurgence of Crocs is connected to social media marketing, especially TikTok, which has platformed all of the creative, colorful, personalized ways users are rocking their Crocs. Like many other aspects of our culture, this fashion trend is rooted in the stylish remixes of young people of color.

Jordyn Holman: I absolutely think there is. That's what got me interested in writing about Crocs now because I think, for a long time, the assumption of who Crocs were for, it was the suburban moms, it was the young white kids. I think of the mid-2000s. That's the images you saw of who was wearing Crocs, but over the past few years, you see Black celebrities wearing Crocs. You're not getting a billboard that says, "These are for Black people," but it does change your perception of who it's for.

For the story I wrote for The New York Times about Crocs, I talked to Black consumers about it, and it just showed me, when Black people are wearing it, it does change the conversation. It just changes the culture. You look at who Crocs is doing endorsement deals with, and it's not just Black people, but they're leaning into the Latinx community. A huge partnership they had was with Bad Bunny, and when he released his version of Crocs, it sold out. A lot of people couldn't get it. I think, over the past few years, what you're really seeing is Crocs has become more prominent on social media.

Obviously, Black people are on social media and often drive a lot of the culture, and so why wouldn't Crocs benefit when Black people start wearing more Crocs and showing them off? I definitely think there is a perception change that has happened with the brand.

Melissa Harris-Perry: When you mentioned your New York Times piece on the Crocs, you also talked with someone who described Crocs as therapy. Talk to me about her.

Jordyn Holman: I talked to a mother named Adriana in Roanoke, Virginia. At first, she wasn't sold on Crocs. She had to be coerced into it, and then, once she finally willingly bought her first pair, she loved the comfort, she loved the fit. What was great was-- This was during the pandemic and she would connect with neighbors around her area. When she saw they were wearing Crocs, she would stop and have a conversation. Then she joined a Facebook group, and then she'll respond on Twitter, on the Crocs main Twitter account, when they're posting things. I think they had a tweet like, "Post your Crocs in the airport," and she did.

It's very much a community that Crocs has built, and for her, she described it as it's her therapy. It's her self-care in this world where you hear a lot about consumers [unintelligible 00:08:44] discretionary items, which you would think footwear Crocs falls in that. She was like, "No, I'm not going to do that even if the economy is going to crap. Why would I stop doing something that makes me feel good about myself?" When I talked to a lot of people who just love Crocs, they often are pointing to, it connects them to something greater than just a pair of shoes.

Melissa Harris-Perry: I just have to ask, have you seen these $500, I think it was Balenciaga high-heel Crocs?

Jordyn Holman: Yes. [chuckles] Yes.

Melissa Harris-Perry: You've talked about what attracts people to Crocs. I got to say, both the fact that they're $500 and the fact that they're high heels feels like it's moving exactly in opposition to what people like about the footwear.

Jordyn Holman: It's interesting because you could also say the opposite. They're moving downwards too because they have started offering sandals, which are at a lower price point than the classic Croc is around $5. Sandals can be maybe half of that. As a business strategy, it's very smart of Crocs to just offer everything across the board. If you are trying to upscale, if you're trying to wear it to wherever you might wear these Balenciaga Crocs to, red carpet, gala, whatnot, you have that option, but when you want to go home because now you're--

Well, I guess your feet wouldn't hurt from that, but after being out on your feet, maybe you want to put on the sandals at home or whatnot. From a business standpoint, Crocs is just trying to win over as many customers as it can and to appeal to as many customers as it can. Even though they're upscaling, it doesn't mean they're getting away from the classic clog that got people to love them. That's something that their management team has been very clear about, saying, yes, we're trying all these different things, but we're very focused on this what you would call in the industry, the hero product, the product that brings people into the brand.

Melissa Harris-Perry: Is there a generational divide on this? Are Crocs ultimately what any one given generation is wearing more than the other, or is this the shoe that you, your mama, your grandmama can all wear?

Jordyn Holman: I definitely think it's the latter. You see people across the board wearing them and people in different life roles. People are wearing them to work, but also kids are wearing them to school. What's been really interesting and really key in retail is looking at Gen Z and how they've won over them, so teenagers to young 20-somethings. That's Gen Z. Steadily over the past few years, Crocs has gained popularity among that cohort, and that's really important for any retailer because once you win over Gen Z, hopefully, you get them for life.

You're selling to them for decades compared to if you're catering to someone who's 60. That's been something really interesting to watch when it comes to Crocs' popularity. Teenagers love them. They also love all the new styles that Crocs is introducing as well. That just gives it a little bit more staying power.

Melissa Harris-Perry: All right. A final piece here, which is about the environmental concern. If we're living in a time when gender neutrality matters, if we're living in a time when the racial signaling matters, we're also living in a time when consumers want to be making sustainable choices. Are Crocs sustainable?

Jordyn Holman: That's a great question. The argument is, anything that you're buying a whole bunch of might not be sustainable. There's people who are like, "We shouldn't keep buying all these things." But if you're a retail company, you're obviously trying to sell more of your stuff. That's not the best winning argument for yourself. Crocs, they have had sustainability goals like other companies trying to lessen the effect of carbon during their production process.

It's always just lessening or reducing the harmful impact, and it bears out to see exactly where those sustainability goals go. I think it's a struggle for any retailer. You're constantly producing things, you're constantly trying to get people to buy more of those things, so how much are you going to help the environment with that business model?

Melissa Harris-Perry: Jordyn Holman is a business reporter for The New York Times. Jordyn, I so appreciate you coming and rocking and crocking with me here.

Jordyn Holman: Thanks for having me. This was so fun.

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