David Remnick: It is a very rough time to be in school. As a teacher or as a student, you're in the crossfire of the culture wars with book bans, the movement for parental rights, and much more. There's the fight over cell phones, with half the states now restricting them, and budgets, of course, are always being slashed. Somehow, all of that chaos makes schools fertile ground for comedy. There's Abbott Elementary, which has won a handful of Emmy awards. Debuting this season is English Teacher. It stars Brian Jordan Alvarez, who created the show for FX.

Alvarez has been an actor for many years, but he quite suddenly burst into fame on TikTok. A year ago, he posted a video that exploded. Everybody was suddenly talking about Brian Jordan Alvarez, including our staff writer Vinson Cunningham.

Vinson Cunningham: Like perhaps many listeners first heard of Brian Jordan Alvarez on TikTok, where he plays a panoply of characters, and one of them, perhaps most famously, is named TJ Mack, a man who loves to get deals at such places as TJ Maxx. He sings a song that goes like, [sings] "Sitting, sitting is the opposite of standing."

[MUSIC - Brian Jordan Alvarez: Sitting]

Sitting, sitting is the opposite of standing

Sitting is the opposite of running around,

And sitting is a wonderful thing to do because you're sitting

Sitting--

Vinson Cunningham: I don't know. It's a song about sitting. It's a song about the benefits of sitting as opposed to, say, standing. It's a silly song, and this is a lot of what Brian Jordan Alvarez is known for before he created the FX show English Teacher, which is about an English Teacher named Evan who teaches in Austin, Texas. Without getting too sappy or didactic or sort of preachy about it, he navigates this cultural stuff with the kind of humor that only Brian Jordan Alvarez could pull off.

Evan: Wait, her kid. That kid graduated. He's in college now. Why is she doing this now?

Grant: I don’t know. Why does anybody do anything?

Evan: Wait a minute. Linda Harrison. I remember that name. That's the mom that complained about the assigned reading.

Grant: Lewd content. Yes.

Evan: Lewd content, right? Do you remember what the book was that she said was lewd?

Grant: The Great Gatsby.

Evan: The Great Gatsby.

Vinson Cunningham: I do want to know a bit about why you chose this milieu as the place to set this show. Where did you fit in at school? Were you already performing?

Brian Jordan Alvarez: I famously call myself an A-minus student, which meant I had what it took to be an A-plus student, but I preferred a lower effort, more joyful life. Basically, my parents-- my mom is Colombian and my dad's American, and they just made it not an option that me and my sister had to get A's, but by the time I was in high school, to me, that meant A-minuses were fine. I got A-minuses. I had a theater teacher at USC named Brent Blair, and he talked about something that was for theater, like how to use your voice in theater.

I think it was maximum effect, minimum effort. Which is obvious. That's just efficiency.

Vinson Cunningham: Don't push.

Brian Jordan Alvarez: I was that kind of a student. I was an A-minus student. I had the maximum effect with the minimum effort.

Vinson Cunningham: [chuckles] What's interesting, again, about the setting of English Teacher, it's like in a red state, there is this triangle of a relationship. It's you, there's the kids, but then also the parents, who are understood to be more conservative than anybody who really ever shows up on the show. I wonder what that setting does for you in terms of, especially putting forward a different kind of representation of gay life. Weirdly, like we see relationships under real pressure that we don't usually see when we see gay couples, maybe in coastal situations or whatever.

It's a whole different setup.

Brian Jordan Alvarez: Right. Yes. to me, it's part of what always interested me about this idea and this setting was like, this character, Evan, he wants to be and is in so many ways, essentially an out proud gay guy but how does that feel in this school with all these different forces coming at him, basically. I think just a lot of that friction I did absorb from growing up in a very rural town in Tennessee. Essentially, it was what you think it is. It was not a super liberal environment by any means. You learn like you're negotiating sometimes how much can I be myself right now, basically? [laughs]

Vinson Cunningham: Is there a corollary there to what it's like to modulate versions and visions of yourself in Hollywood? Do you find yourself doing that occupationally, too? You've carved out such a space of your own online, and we'll talk about that later. I just wonder whether that has been a negotiation for you as a performer and writer.

Brian Jordan Alvarez: I'd like to think it has not been like that for me. No, I think it's sort of the joke, but it's also true I didn't know that you could just stay in the closet professionally, but be out personally. Do you know what I'm saying? There are these people that are--

Vinson Cunningham: You mean the whole history of cinema? [laughs]

Brian Jordan Alvarez: Yes, I guess, but I thought when somebody was in the closet in Hollywood, that it meant they were in the closet to everyone except for their best friend and their mom or something. I didn't know that their whole friend group and everybody knew they were gay, but just publicly facing--

Vinson Cunningham: Just don't say it to People magazine.

Brian Jordan Alvarez: Right, exactly. When I found out, it was like when I would see people that I had known were gay, and I thought they were just broadly out, but then later you see a thing where they're like, "I'm coming out of the closet," and you're like, "Out of the closet? I thought--" Anyway, I joke about that because, in a way, I benefited from not realizing that that was an option. Not that I would have chosen to do that, but I was just always like, "Yes, I'm gay." In a way, sometimes it's part of my work, sometimes it's not.

In this show, the way this show came to me in my mind when I was writing it, it ends up being about that and it's definitely not only a show about being gay in the world, right?

Vinson Cunningham: Not close to.

Brian Jordan Alvarez: That is one of the subjects. You know, Evan, who is at the center of the show, is gay, and sometimes we're looking at that and talking about that, and a lot of the time, we're not. I love having the freedom to make all the jokes that come out of that too. That's something I liked about that too.

Vinson Cunningham: Let me play you, if you will, a clip from the first episode. Evan, your character is talking to his students in a way that's really fun, but also may take us some other places. Great.

Evan: How do you know that?

Speaker 5: Come on, everybody knows this. You kissed your little boyfriend in front of the students.

Evan: Whatever I did or didn't do, I'm not going to talk about it with you guys.

Speaker 5: Just claim that they're attacking you because you're Hispanic and they have, like, a racist agenda.

Evan: Yes, but that has nothing to do with it.

Becca: Hispanic would never work anyway, because they can do, like, one of those DNA tests and disprove it.

Speaker 5: Oh, my God, Becca, he is Hispanic.

Becca: In what way?

Speaker 5: His mom from Columbia.

Becca: That's not Hispanic. Hispanic means Mexican.

Speaker 5: No.

Speaker 6: I'm calling the cops.

Becca: You're bullying me.

Speaker 6: You're bullying me because I told you not to look to me.

Speaker 5: Mr. Marquez, you're gay, you're Hispanic. This is a slam dunkey.

Speaker 6: I'm telling you. Gay doesn't count anymore, and he talks like a straight white guy.

Becca: I think your voice is a little gay.

Speaker 5: Actually, really gay.

Evan: Oh, thanks.

[laughter]

Vinson Cunningham: So funny. Also, to your point, this show is very much not all about identity, but it is, on some level, about how we perform ourselves in different levels of public or different sort of faces to the world.

Brian Jordan Alvarez: Exactly.

Vinson Cunningham: I did wonder. That cut so hard. To me, I was like, is that something that you've dealt with in your career of, like, "Is this guy Latino, or is he a white guy?" Is that something that you've also been--

Brian Jordan Alvarez: I haven't dealt with it directly, but I imagine behind the scenes, people have asked that question. They've been like, "His mom is Colombian. Okay. What is? I don't know."

Vinson Cunningham: Speaking of relationships, and this is another really great part of the show, one of the central facets of the show is the relationship between Evan and another teacher at the school who's played by Stephanie Koenig. I know you guys have been collaborators for many years. How'd you guys meet?

Brian Jordan Alvarez: We were hired actors on a student film that UC Santa Barbara was making. Simply put, the first night I met her, I could not believe how funny she was. I was like, "Did someone beam you in from outer space?" I remember there was a moment when she said, "Do you?" and I was like, "Do I have room in my life for a friend?" then I was like, "No, for you. You're the funniest person I've ever met."

Evan: The kids this year, I feel like they're less woke. Did you notice that?

Gwen: Oh, I know.

Evan: Did you notice that? They're not into being woke anymore.

Gwen: It's circled back around.

Evan: It circled all the way around. Now they're like, for what they say they're against.

Gwen: Right, and they're saying the R-word again.

Evan: Like, you had that kid. What was he saying about the Spanish Inquisition?

Gwen: I had to teach both sides of the Spanish Inquisition.

Evan: It's so insane

Gwen: He got upset. He started crying and saying--

Evan: I have these kids that are showing me AI porn of Oscar Wilde having sex with women. He was gay.

Vinson Cunningham: I am interested in the shape of your career, the way that you have, as you mentioned, made shorts, made YouTube videos. I am a fan of a song that starts with, [sings, "Sitting." Tell me about that. Was the ethos always, "Hey, I'm not going to wait for somebody to make something with me, I'm going to make my own things"? What was the impetus for all of your stuff that people know you from online?

Brian Jordan Alvarez: It was pretty organic. There's two levels to it. There's the level on which I didn't really have any connections. I just had to start getting my stuff out there in any way I could. On a basic level, I have a ton of creative energy, and I just have to use it. What's funny is I've even had times when I go, "Brian, we're not going to make stuff anymore. We're just going to audition and just act and just get roles in things." To try to focus the energy a bit. Right.

Vinson Cunningham: You have to lecture yourself in this way.

Brian Jordan Alvarez: Yes, because acting is the main thing for me. That's the driving force. That's the horse that pulls the cart.

Vinson Cunningham: More than writing [crosstalk]

Brian Jordan Alvarez: More than writing, more than directing, more than anything, it's acting. I consider myself an actor first, and that's my first love. I just am a creative writer and a director, and all these things, they're just in my bones. They're in my blood. I was editing movies that I would shoot with my friends on my mom's iMac when I was like twelve. You know those jewel-colored iMacs? She had one--

Vinson Cunningham: I know them well. With the little handle on the top.

Brian Jordan Alvarez: Yes, the best.

Vinson Cunningham: It's a much different process than writing a joke one month and then many months later seeing it on TV.

Brian Jordan Alvarez: Oh, my God.

Vinson Cunningham: Did you learn anything or what did you learn? I'm sure you must have learned.

Brian Jordan Alvarez: I learned patience.

[laughter]

Vinson Cunningham: What about your performance as an actor connects with people? Did you figure out something about yourself as a performer because of the rapidity of the response on, say, TikTok?

Brian Jordan Alvarez: Ooh. Making my own sketches on YouTube for years, it was huge. It really taught me to get used to myself on camera. It taught me what I looked and sounded like and how to act on camera, really, because if you came to the English Teacher set, you would see there was sort of this way that we're working. We're just trying to find the funniest way to do it. I'll do a lot of different takes, and I'm really giving the editors in my performance, and we do it with other actors too, if they want to. We're giving the editors huge options, total different energetic ways the scene could be like.

Like I'll do ones that are really big and over the top and almost caricaturey, and then I'll do ones that are really understated, where I barely move, and I'm just almost murmuring the lines. I think the editors like that. These editors are, are hugely instrumental to why the show works.

Vinson Cunningham: I wonder, in this vein, right, because there is such a continuum of, let's say, precision and professionalism in comedy. I was so interested about just what it was like to be on the Will and Grace reboot of this classic property, this classic show, working again. You're talking about characters with characters that we all know, especially Jack. You're playing Estefan, the love interest of Jack. What was it like fitting your talent into this thing that you already knew it works because we've seen it so much.

Brian Jordan Alvarez: It was so amazing. I just feel so grateful. They were all so welcoming. Debra and Sean and Eric and Megan. They were just so sweet to me, so arms wide open, and it's kind of simple. Max Mutchnick and David Cohan, they make an amazing show, and they know exactly how to do it, and they're very brilliant creatives. They came up with this part, and I showed up able to do what was required, and then they just knew how to make that sing. Really, it's simple. You're just in great hands. The writing is doing so much of it.

Since I was little, I have the showboat side of me, where I love to just perform in front of a crowd. That was amazing. Especially the most unique thing about being on the Will and Grace reboot is that you're doing it in front of a live audience, and it's like you're at a rock show. These people have been watching Will and Grace for 20 years. They can't believe they're here getting to see it. Then you're delivering brand new hysterical jokes, and then you're doing another take with a new punchline, and it's the coolest thing ever.

Grace: He's here.

Jack: Yes. Estefan, come in, come in, come in. Estefan, Will, and Grace. Will, Grace, Estefan.

Estefan: Oh, this is Will. Look at him with his square jaw and his wild mane of red hair.

[laughter]

Grace: What? No, I'm not. I'm not Will. I'm obviously a woman.

Estefan: Maybe you are not the one to say what is obvious.

[laughter]

Jack: He's got you there, Grace.

[laughter]

Estefan: Sir, could I get a soft drink, maybe something like a ginger ale? Please leave the can.

[laughter]

Grace: I'll give it a look.

Estefan: You lied to me.

Jack: No, no, no. I didn't lie. Will's not attractive. [laughter]

Brian Jordan Alvarez: I grew up on that show. I loved that show, and my dad has a strict line for what he considers funny and not funny in our house. We watched a lot of comedies, and maybe that's how I've turned out to be, because I'll be like, "No, this isn't funny yet. We have to make this funny." Will and Grace was considered one of the funny shows that we watched, and that was big for me, too, being gay and not really being out of the closet until high school and just knowing, "This is okay. Here are some gay icons that I can look up to," basically.

Vinson Cunningham: Was the accent brought to you or did you bring the accent?

Brian Jordan Alvarez: The accent was written. Yes, it was a Spanish accent. Exactly.

Vinson Cunningham: Were there things directly that you learned there that made their way into the English Teacher in terms of either writing or performance or anything? Was there supportability there?

Brian Jordan Alvarez: Yes. You said the word precision, and I think that maybe is the biggest thing because Max Mutchnick is very precise with what he wants. Even though English Teacher, we're doing a lot of different options and stuff, there still is a real keen precision a lot of the time about what I'm trying to get, and I'm sure a lot of people that make comedy say this so much that it's overplayed but the truth is, you're looking for certain sound, a certain musicality a lot of the time. For the joke to work, it has to go, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. da, da, da, da, da, da.

A lot of the time, you're just really looking to get that exact thing. I think that kind of clarity about what he wanted was something that I was able to take into English Teacher and feel like, "Look, if we're going to make a great show, I'm going to have to be clear about what I want," and nothing super intense about it, but just be like, "Hold on. It needs to be like this. Not like that. Like this."

Vinson Cunningham: Thank you, Brian Jordan Alvarez.

Brian Jordan Alvarez: Thank you so much. This was awesome.

David Remnick: Brian Jordan Alvarez spoke with the New Yorker staff writer Vinson Cunningham. You can watch English Teacher on FX and Hulu.

 

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