BRYANT TERRY: I certainly think it is, John. You know, I think many Americans are looking for very practical ways of being patriotic, and, you know, I, as well as many other people across the country, think that one way to do this is by supporting a healthy, just, sustainable food system.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: Now, you know, that sounds great. And again, you know, you’re in Berkeley, California, so you actually have to say that or you get arrested. But, I was, in preparing for this interview, I actually went online and looked at traditional recipes from when the Fourth of July was traditionally celebrated. I mean, the first celebration was 1777. But, in 1801, it was a big White House celebration, and even looking at, like, traditional Thanksgiving menus, and most of the dishes are vegetable.

BRYANT TERRY: Yeh, and you know, if we think about what’s most healthy and sustainable for all of us, it’s a plant-centered diet. And, you know, I’m certainly not advocating that everyone give up meat, you know. I think that’s a very personal decision. But I think that we Americans, given that we’re one of the most diet-obsessed nations, but also one of the fattest nations…

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: Sure.

BRYANT TERRY:…need to reconsider our overconsumption of animal products and, you know, even when we do consume them, I think we should think about ways that we could support small farmers and artisans that are really supporting a healthy food system, and raising animals in a way that’s ethical, that’s humane and that’s certainly better for the environment and our bodies.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: Well, let’s look at the, you know, contemporary Fourth of July menu for a moment. I mean, one of the things that has always been frustrating to me if you spend all day out at the grill or by the lake or something, you amass an enormous amount of waste. And putting aside the paper plates, which of course, that’s wrong to begin with, what of the food that you typically eat on the Fourth of July summer picnic, weekend picnic, doesn’t have to be thrown away?

BRYANT TERRY: Well, you know, I grew up in Memphis, Tennessee, and watermelon is one of these staples that you see throughout the summer.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: Oh, yeh.

BRYANT TERRY: But, especially on Fourth of July. And so, in my latest book, Vegan Soul Kitchen, as a way to help people think about practical ways of being sustainable, I have this whole section called the “Zero Waste Watermelon” section to show that you can use every edible part of the watermelon, and make it taste delicious, and feed everyone at the party. So, I have some really tasty recipes that have that option.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: Alright, let’s break it down. Let’s do the watermelon autopsy, and let’s figure out what we do with each part of it. I mean, we’ve got, of course, the delicious, juicy center. That’s easy.

BRYANT TERRY: Yeah. You know, I mean, everyone eats them sliced. That’s kind of typical. But one thing I recommend is using creative salts to sprinkle on, and it’s a great contrast. So I mix coarse sea salt with basil, with thyme, with rosemary, and just give it a sprinkle. A lot of people don’t realize that you could actually use the seeds: toast them, toss them with a little olive oil, some salt and pepper, and you can actually eat the seeds.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: Oh, fantastic.

BRYANT TERRY: So, that’s a great way. For the adults, I have my fresh watermelon, vodka martini. I think we have to think about eating healthfully and sustainably. But when it comes to the weekends and special gatherings, we need a little spirit sometimes. So, that’s a great way to kick the weekend off.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: And of course vodka’s a great way to recycle potatoes. Isn’t that exactly right? And then, what about the rind?

BRYANT TERRY: The rind. You know, a southern classic that a lot of people aren’t aware of, but I’m hoping to resuscitate, is pickled watermelon rind. You know, it’s a great way of taking off the green part, boiling it in a thick syrup and then letting it sit for about four or five days. And it’s just delicious, kind of, I don’t know, kind of reminiscent of the kind of mango you have pickled, in mango chutneys.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: I’m trying to think of where you see pickled watermelon typically, not around Fourth of July. But you’re saying it’s something you can actually make yourself?

BRYANT TERRY: It’s something that you can make easily at home. There’s this, thankfully, this kind of, like, movement around canning and pickling and preserving that we’re seeing, not only in the Bay area and New York City, the obvious places, but across the country, throughout the South, in the Midwest. And it’s been really great to see people taking steps towards preparing foods at home, you know, this kind of bringing the slow food movement into the home kitchen.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: Well, I hear in your voice, and you said Tennessee, right, that’s where you grew up?

BRYANT TERRY: Yes.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: Yep. So, is it possible to maintain a certain discipline in the diet, and still experience southern food in its most intense and perfect? I mean, okra’s easy, but what about some other things?

BRYANT TERRY: Well, I think, people have to get past this misconception that southern food and African-American cuisine is just the deep-fried, fatty meats and sugary deserts. That’s certainly a part of it, but what I want to do is paint a more complex picture of it. So, you know, taking these traditional staples of Africa, the Caribbean, the Americas, Europe, and kind of reworking, remixing, rewinding to create something that’s reminiscent of the original dish, but different and new. So, for instance, instead of cooking greens savory, I have this “Citrus Collards with Raisins” recipe that gives it a kind of fresh modern twist and…

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: Oooohhh, that sounds great! Explain. What are you putting together for that? I love the raisins. And you’ve got collard greens with the raisins?

BRYANT TERRY: Yeh. You know, rather than cooking the collard greens for two or three hours, as was traditionally done in my family, I just give them a quick blanche in salted boiling water, shock them in ice water, and then sauté them with a little extra-virgin olive oil, some fresh garlic, give them a sprinkle of coarse sea salt, fresh orange juice, Thompson raisins, and it’s a really delicious, modern twist on this old classic.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: That is great. And serve at room temperature? A little warm?

BRYANT TERRY: However one likes it. Hot, room temperature, it’s all good.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: People are scared of okra, help us with that.

BRYANT TERRY: Well, you know, okra, it can be scary, if cooked too slimily, but, or cooked incorrectly where it’s too slimy. But one thing that I recommend, and I certainly don’t recommend deep frying or frying foods often, but once again, we’re talking about the Fourth of July, it’s a celebration, it’s a holiday, you’ve gotta give yourself some wiggle room. So, I just take the okra, toss it in a little cornmeal, and then give it a quick fry in some extra-virgin olive oil, and then I make this lemon-thyme vinaigrette that I sprinkle on top.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: Quickly, before we go, what’s on your Fourth of July menu, this year?

BRYANT TERRY: You know, my traditional thing to do on Fourth of July, when I’m spending time with my family in the South is to introduce these new non-dairy, non-meat versions of old classics, and just kind of slip them in and see how they’ll take it. So this year, I’m going to be bringing my roasted red potato salad with parsley pine nut pesto.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: I can barely say it: parsley pine nut pesto.

BRYANT TERRY: You know, the alliteration throws some people off. But, I think, you know, rather than the drowning mayonnaise potato salad that my family’s used to having, I’m going to slip this in and see how they like it.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: And what’s on the playlist this holiday?

BRYANT TERRY: Wow. Michael Jackson all the way.

JOHN HOCKENBERRY: Well, on that, we will direct people to our website where your recipes are on our website, for this and other holidays. The idea, the mission: getting to more disciplined notions of eating, but still keeping American traditions alive and well. Bryant Terry, thanks so much for being with us.

BRYANT TERRY: Thanks for having me on, John.